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[Nobilis 3e] The Breadth of Estates

The Free Man

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I'm trying to figure out just how far you can push the nature of an estate. If you have the estate of Fertility, does the purview include only the fertility of a thing, or can that include the product of that fertility as well?
 

Rand Brittain

Go on until you're stopped.
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It can be as broad as you want it to be.

The only real limits are "the possibility of driving other players mad" and "does this definition introduce a paradox my enemies could exploit?".

Jenna explained it to me like this:

Claiming that something is part of your Estate is a land grab. The arguments you use to support that claim are the armies you have occupying the land. If your arguments are flimsy, you're overextended and vulnerable.
 

The Free Man

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Thanks for that. I forget sometimes that determining the boundaries of an estate can be part of the in-game conflict.
 

Sachiel

Hammer Bro
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This is part of the opening discussion the group has to have, and that a player has to have with their HG. The vagueness of how far you could go was even vaguer with the GWB version, where some Estates were simply less powerful when Domain was all you had and there were no Estate properties to define what Estates did and wanted. You had to argue what things lay in your Estate's penumbra of associated symbology. Estate properties are the bomb diggity for defining what your Estate really is at its core. Persona vastly broadens what you can do with even limited, well defined Estates. The rest is, as Rand explains, a semantic argument.

Nobilis is a game of semantics and resource management.
 

Azraele

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Jenna explained it to me like this:
Claiming that something is part of your Estate is a land grab. The arguments you use to support that claim are the armies you have occupying the land. If your arguments are flimsy, you're overextended and vulnerable.
I will never cease marveling at her brilliance
 

MKerwin

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Generally, if you're uncertain whether something falls within your estate or not...

Well,
1) The estate properties you ended up choosing might be a good clue as to whether something falls within it or not.
2) You can probably earn Destiny by starting the game still being uncertain and figuring it out in play!
3) Think about whether what you're doing is going to earn a, 'Really? ...well, okay, I guess...' from the HG, or dubious looks from the other players. It's okay if that happens more at first, when you're still kind of figuring out / explaining your Estate, but if it's happening much later on that suggests you don't actually have a clear idea of what the Estate is.
4) Remember that Excrucians might attack your Estate, and other Nobilis might even mess with it out of spite or as a political maneuver. Making it too broad might make you kind of an easy target.
 

Jere

Allohistorical
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As others have said, estate properties will lead the way. This is both the player's way of saying what is important to them, and a source of story. If one of the properties screams another Domain then you have instant story possibilities.

The points to them by the way is probably an attempt at some sort of play balance. I tend to de-emphasize points in the games I run, they are more of a guidepost than anything else.

As said earlier, the broader the estate the more fronts you will have open. Broad estates are signals that all your time will be spent on the estate. Make sure the player agrees with that!
 
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The Free Man

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As said earlier, the broader the estate the more fronts you will have open. Broad estates are signals that all your time will be spent on the estate. Make sure the player agrees with that!
What do you mean exactly? Do broader estates require the Noble to do more to maintain them?

Speaking of which... I don't think I've ever found out; how do Nobles maintain their estates anyway?
 
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