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Nobilis Elegant Discussion Thread, v11.0

Skycroft

Space Wizard
RPGnet Member
Validated User
So there are a couple of levels to this example.

- if someone uses a miracle on you, and you choose not to take a Wound, then the effect of the miracle happens as the player who used the miracle intended. You only have the right to choose how the effect manifests by taking a Wound. If it transpires that there is a mismatch between what the player intended and what you thought the effect was, you need to hash it out OOC - either a) convince the player that your interpretation is in line with what they intended, or hash out with them and the HG some compromise or b) retroactively take a Wound. The key here is not that you cannot appeal to the mercy of the HG or the other players, or that they may not show mercy, but that you must so appeal. It's them, not you, that gets to state what happens, unless you take a Wound. This is normal - it is usually the case that the player using a miracle dictates the effect of it (within the limit of what the miracle allows them to state, of course) and it is Wounds that break the usual rules.

- Afflictions are not under the direct control of the player, but under the control of the HG. In this case the player is the HG, so that doesn't change anything. But this only shifts who gets to do the deciding and (in this case) the grounds by which they might so decide. It doesn't give you more leeway in deciding how the effect manifests if you choose not to take a Wound. Taking a Wound is what gives you that leeway: being able to decide how 'love' manifests for you is one way in which you might take a Wound to mitigate such an effect. As you say, this is a textbook example in Chuubo's. The corollary is that if you do not take a Wound, you do not get to decide how love manifests - unless the HG so allows.

Now, it might be that the HG is not picky about this particular Affliction, for any number of reasons (it fits their idea of the character in question that they don't really control what form the love takes, for instance, or simply because it works better with the story). Then you can decide what love means for you. But - and this is important - this is so because of HG largesse, not because of something about Afflictions per se. If you get stabbed, and don't take a Wound, the HG may allow you to get patched up and be fine once you have the chance to heal. Or they may rule that you bleed out and give you Obstacle 5 on all actions thereafter because you are dead. It's up to them, not you.

Whereas if you do take a Wound, you get to decide what form the love takes (or even if it takes any form at all, though there still must be some effect the Affliciton had on you if you didn't block it) regardless of what the HG's idea of the Affliction is. In practice the difference may not be that huge, if the HG is generally pretty liberal about Afflictions. But the difference is there (and personally I'm pretty specific about what Bondflictions do, as I think they work better that way).
 
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zenten

Active member
Validated User
By the rules, sure. By what any HG who isn't a complete asshole should do, be careful with this stuff, regardless of the rules or how they can take a Wound. Making a PC fall in love with another character like that gets into major squick territory, and so don't push things if a player is looking for a reasonable out.
 

Skycroft

Space Wizard
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Validated User
Well, a reasonable out is taking a Wound.

I mean, you’re very right, that especially this sort of thing is something to tread carefully on. I would not have such an Affliction without having it be fairly free in how the love manifests. But that’s more an artifact of the specific example, not either Afflictions or Wounds. I otherwise take a rather dim view of people trying to do an end run around the Wound system. Wounds are a tool for player agency, not a thing to be avoided in the service of it.
 

zenten

Active member
Validated User
Well, a reasonable out is taking a Wound.

I mean, you’re very right, that especially this sort of thing is something to tread carefully on. I would not have such an Affliction without having it be fairly free in how the love manifests. But that’s more an artifact of the specific example, not either Afflictions or Wounds. I otherwise take a rather dim view of people trying to do an end run around the Wound system. Wounds are a tool for player agency, not a thing to be avoided in the service of it.
Sure, and I agree that abuse of them isn't cool. But at the same every Wound you take is one step closer to losing your PC, so it's not free. Basically, no one at the table should be a dick, regardless of how the rules are interpreted.

On a somewhat related question, how have people managed to incorporate the X-Card into their Nobilis 3e games? It actually seems like it would take all the wind out of the Wound system, at least if you're following the X-Card as written.
 

CyanoCat

New member
Just found out about this game and was more or less pointed to the forums here. It seems like it would be interesting to try out but i could barely find a trace of people actually playing it. It also seems like the type of game i wouldnt want to try gm’ing with without any experience with the system.
 

zenten

Active member
Validated User
Just found out about this game and was more or less pointed to the forums here. It seems like it would be interesting to try out but i could barely find a trace of people actually playing it. It also seems like the type of game i wouldnt want to try gm’ing with without any experience with the system.
I've run it before, and once I've got my life arranged to run a regular game again it's first on my list. From a GM standpoint it's actually not that hard to run, the hard part is that it's fairly different in both GM and player expectations from any other game I'm aware of (not just trad games, it's just as different from Apocalypse World or The Clay That Woke or whatnot than from D&D or Vampire), so it's more a case of everyone unlearning things than learning, if that makes sense.

Also, it's both crunchy and very fast, which means plan on short sessions of a couple of hours, or else everyone will get burned out.
 
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Rabbit Éclair

high in vital bunnytonium
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Validated User
By the rules, sure. By what any HG who isn't a complete asshole should do, be careful with this stuff, regardless of the rules or how they can take a Wound. Making a PC fall in love with another character like that gets into major squick territory, and so don't push things if a player is looking for a reasonable out.
I mean, you’re very right, that especially this sort of thing is something to tread carefully on. I would not have such an Affliction without having it be fairly free in how the love manifests. But that’s more an artifact of the specific example, not either Afflictions or Wounds. I otherwise take a rather dim view of people trying to do an end run around the Wound system. Wounds are a tool for player agency, not a thing to be avoided in the service of it.
Oh, yeah, just to be clear that was an Affliction I came up with off the top of my head as a more straightforward example. The actual one I have in play is 'I'm the best thing that's ever happened to you,' in the sense that within five seconds of meeting her, everybody feels like she's some kind of immensely important positive figure within their lives. With a lot of that wiggle room so I can choose character/player appropriate ways for it to manifest on a case by case basis.
 

CubedWarrior

New member
So I picked up a copy of Nobilis, and am currently trying to run a game with my friend group. However, as always it would be nice to play a game myself, both too learn more things about how the game is played and because i mostly picked up the game because it looked fun to play so it would be nice to not be the gm for a bit. ;) So does anyone now where I could find a game to play?
 

CyanoCat

New member
So I picked up a copy of Nobilis, and am currently trying to run a game with my friend group. However, as always it would be nice to play a game myself, both too learn more things about how the game is played and because i mostly picked up the game because it looked fun to play so it would be nice to not be the gm for a bit. ;) So does anyone now where I could find a game to play?
im pretty much in the same position right now. i kinda want to play it first before i try gming cause it seems ill be going in blind in a way. im thinking i may try and do a sort of oneshot game ahead of time just to test it out. im also considering if i should use 2e or 3e rules
 

zenten

Active member
Validated User
im pretty much in the same position right now. i kinda want to play it first before i try gming cause it seems ill be going in blind in a way. im thinking i may try and do a sort of oneshot game ahead of time just to test it out. im also considering if i should use 2e or 3e rules
Rules wise I really like 3e, as they address a lot of problems in 2e, although they're less like a typical roleplaying game system than 2e is.
 
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