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[Nobilis] Proper Immortal Gift?

zenten

Active member
Validated User
So one thing in the new edition is that Immortal doesn't protect you from a lot of things that it used to. I get with the new system paradigm that you can't be immune to a sufficiently powerful Miracle, but I'm wondering how you can be immune to absolutely everything that's not Miraculous. In the GWB Holy Fire would have done it, but that's gone too. You can sort of do it by adding an Affliction, but that has serious negative consequences if it's broken, and requires more than just a gift.
 

Wurzel

Action biologist!
Validated User
If you're just worried about being immune to non-miraculous things, that's easy; after all, nothing but miracles and magic can provide strike. Just take the Affliction 'No Mundane Things Can Harm Me' at 1, and you're sorted. Won't protect you against other nobles utilizing mundane means, or possibly a driven alchemist, but it does make it impossible for your average human to do anything to you that you don't want.
 

Wolfgar

Registered User
Validated User
What non-miraculous things are you worried about getting through?

(Gifts are miraculous. Any miracle level that is not explicitly given an equivalent mundane level automatically beats any mundane action-even the shittiest level 2 preservation automatically beats any mundane action that tries to counter it. All Domain and Persona miracles are like this. Active Immortality is modeled as a Major Preservation of Self, a Domain miracle. No mundane action can get through it already.)
 

zenten

Active member
Validated User
What non-miraculous things are you worried about getting through?

(Gifts are miraculous. Any miracle level that is not explicitly given an equivalent mundane level automatically beats any mundane action-even the shittiest level 2 preservation automatically beats any mundane action that tries to counter it. All Domain and Persona miracles are like this. Active Immortality is modeled as a Major Preservation of Self, a Domain miracle. No mundane action can get through it already.)
Nuclear weapons are one example the comes to mind. It's right in the damage chart.
 

katechon

Now 100% less Attic
Validated User
Nuclear weapons are one example the comes to mind. It's right in the damage chart.
And part of the description of Active Immortality reads "There's no point in nuking you."

Again, why does this not fit the bill?
 

ADamiani

Will GM For Food
Validated User
τὸ κατέχον;14351125 said:
And part of the description of Active Immortality reads "There's no point in nuking you."

Again, why does this not fit the bill?
... because there very much IS a point in nuking you.
 

Gyromancer

not my snootle!
Validated User
Unless you're trying to create a character that is literally impossible to hurt in any physical way at all, the downpowering of Immortality isn't necessarily a concern. It's still ridiculously hard to kill Immortals without significant investments of power, but it does leave open the slim possibility of death. To me this comes across as getting the best side of both worlds: you get to laugh at your enemies as their petty little C4 explosives and flesh-eating cybernetic bee swarms fail to do anything more than muss up your perfect hair, while simultaneously allowing you the slightest thrill at the idea that someone might theoretically be able to kill you at some point.

Also, the damage chart is based on the idea that the Noble being targeted is literally doing nothing as the nuclear missiles race towards them. A moderate exertion of effort will probably be enough to downgrade a nuke to, say, level six damage, making it a surface or serious wound. Even if the worst comes to pass and you do take a deadly wound, you could just take an Affliction of "I have been disintegrated by a nuke". You still have four wounds left, and now your enemies can't actually target your body as you currently don't have one. If this still isn't enough, it's been pointed out that an Affliction (with possibly a bond for added strength) can boost your already ridiculous defenses to utterly insane levels.

And if that still isn't enough, uh. As a GM, I'd be asking you if you just really, really hate the idea of physical conflicts, because you're going to an awful lot of effort to make them a non-issue. It's cool if you do, but it's also a problem better adressed directly, rather than by game mechanics.

I may be letting bias intrude, here: I personally find the idea of shutting down an entire avenue of conflict to be a rather unenjoyable idea. Unlike nigh-invincibility, true invincibility is less fun in play than in theory.
 

ExNihilo

The lesser of two weasels
Validated User
Nuclear weapons are one example the comes to mind. It's right in the damage chart.
Sure, a thermonuclear explosion will hurt an Immortal Power if he just stands there and takes it. Still, in order to be killed that way a previously-uninjured Immortal (and considering he heals the damage from anything up to and including cannon fire in an hour or less, odds are good he's uninjured) would have to sit around and allow himself to be nuked twice in a single day, no? And that wouldn't even kill him, it would just weaken him to the point that he was vulnerable to a howitzer or a helicopter gunship. You'd still have to drop a house on him or run him over with an eighteen-wheeler to do any significant damage, and you couldn't let up because he could heal some of that damage in a single minute. And again, this assumes the Power under attack takes absolutely no actions whatsoever in his own defense beyond vaguely willing himself not to die.

So if your hypothetical Immortal character was shot with an industrial laser, crushed beneath an armored car, dropped off a skyscraper and then nuked twice all within an hour or so it's possible for him to die from entirely mundane damage, though at that point I'm not sure if 'mundane' is really the right word anymore.
 
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CrownedSun

Registered User
Validated User
So if your hypothetical Immortal character was shot with an industrial laser, crushed beneath an armored car, dropped off a skyscraper and then nuked twice all within an hour or so it's possible for him to die from entirely mundane damage, though at that point I'm not sure if 'mundane' is really the right word anymore.
Gotta hit him with the nukes first, so that he shaves off those deadly wounds. If you do the surface and tough damage first, it just falls off after you nuke him the second time. :D

Anyway, as long as he had Active Immortality, I might let him be defeated but I wouldn't let him die.
 
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