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[Official] Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread Part II

taschoene

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Not only that, but he also quietly sits by and lets Hydra destroy Peggy's life's work. Peggy, the woman who's supposed to be the love of his life. He let's Hydra destroy the thing she worked her entire life to build. Doesn't raise a finger to stop it.

Let's face it, Closed Timeloop Cap is a complete sociopath.
Well, he could be doing some things (possibly as Nomad?)

But I think I prefer the idea that there was a separate timeline where he married Peggy and they cleaned up SHIELD, kicked butt on Hydra, etc. until she died and he got old. Then he came back to the main MCU timeline a couple of months ago and laid low just in case they needed a helping hand kick-starting the time travel heist. (If that rat hadn't pushed the button on the time travel van, Cap was going to do it in a week or so.)
 

petros

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Well, he could be doing some things (possibly as Nomad?)

But I think I prefer the idea that there was a separate timeline where he married Peggy and they cleaned up SHIELD, kicked butt on Hydra, etc. until she died and he got old. Then he came back to the main MCU timeline a couple of months ago and laid low just in case they needed a helping hand kick-starting the time travel heist. (If that rat hadn't pushed the button on the time travel van, Cap was going to do it in a week or so.)
Heck, in Spider-man, Mysterio might say something like 'you met Captain America? I thought he retired in the 80s', and then Parker says 'he was still frozen in the 80s', and Mysterio frown-smiles like things are weirder than he thought.
 

Kevin Mowery

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Grumpygoat already did a pretty good job of running down the ridiculous extremes Cap would have to go to in order to keep anyone from knowing he was Peggy Carter's husband, but there's another reason why the time loop doesn't work: it creates a Cap ex nihilo as well as creating issues with predestination.

It's the problem with any bootstrap paradox, but think of it this way: At some point, every point in history was the present and the future hadn't happened. Which means that at some point, Steve Rogers from 2023 appeared in 1945 without Steve Rogers from 2023 ever existing in the universe before. That works fine if he's actually appearing in the past, causing an alternate timeline to spawn, because he had a place to come from even if it's not the timeline he's currently in. But for the time loop to work, a Steve who never existed from a time that hasn't happened has to come into being and then the future has to be predetermined so that the Steve from 2023 who travels back in time will come to exist.

If the time loop existed, it would mean that from 1945 to 2023 (at least, and probably for all time) there was no free will because the future had to be predetermined to cause the past.
 

insomniac

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That's not necessarily a problem with a bootstrap paradox, although it doesn't work if we're including alternate timelines and possible futures...
 

Sabermane

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I mean, if you need an alternate timeline go for it, but I don't get how you get to "Steve Rogers must therefore become a complete shut-in dick".

Captain America was, to the public, some guy in a suit pushing warbonds. He could probably tell most people "I was Captain America" and they'd go "ha! I got an old film reel of you...my wife saw you in Pokipsi" A few might know the classified truth, and the people he rescued, but still--it's a guy in a half-face mask with most of the photos done in grainy '40's action shots. Rogers could be...Steve Rogers, a friend from the war. Not a big deal really.

As for him not doing things--it's the freakin' MCU. For all we know the conversation could have gone:
Peggy: "So you're from the future, and you're telling me Hydra is slowly taking over all of SHIELD?"
Steve: "I'm afraid so. Worse, we can't risk fighting them directly or we could put an entire timeline at jeopardy."
Peggy: "I thought it was bad enough that they had claimed all of South America and joined forces with the Hand."
Steve: "...what?"
P: "The Hand? Mystical Ninjas? They took over most of Brazil and Argentina. We're trying to keep it quiet, but--"
S: "I never heard about that!"
P, after a moment thinking: "Hm...it's almost like someone from the future showed up and spent the next few decades doing a covert attack to keep their enemies weak enough to not conquer the world, destroy a clan of deadly ninjas, and make sure things are just bad enough for the timeline to be stable...Got your passport, Mr. Rogers?"

I mean--again, Hydra controlled major factions of the US government, SHIELD, and multiple other small nations. The fact they didn't take over the globe in 40 years of comic book time is a freakin' miracle. Or maybe, just maybe, Steve Rogers got his wife AND nazi-punching in his time-travelling vacation for all his good deeds.
 

Paladina

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That's very cool but it annoys me to watch that and realize that it is apparently mid-afternoon in eastern Africa, New York, and San Francisco simultaneously.

I can't unsee it!
I assume late afternoon in Wakanda and early morning in San Francisco.
 

petros

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This is my boss - Peggy Carter, founder of SHIELD. She's quite a woman. This is Mr. R - quite handsome, if I do say. He's one guy who knows how to handle himself. By the way, my name is Jarvis. I take care of both of them, and it's not easy, because ever since they met, their hobby is Hydra.
 

Sabermane

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This is my boss - Peggy Carter, founder of SHIELD. She's quite a woman. This is Mr. R - quite handsome, if I do say. He's one guy who knows how to handle himself. By the way, my name is Jarvis. I take care of both of them, and it's not easy, because ever since they met, their hobby is Hydra.
Hee hee hee...
 

ShadowbaneX

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This is my boss - Peggy Carter, founder of SHIELD. She's quite a woman. This is Mr. R - quite handsome, if I do say. He's one guy who knows how to handle himself. By the way, my name is Jarvis. I take care of both of them, and it's not easy, because ever since they met, their hobby is Hydra.
Why'd you have to do that? Now I want need a husband & wife 70's style spy/crime drama with Peggy & Steve on Disney+.
 

starblade

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Closed loop still doesn't explain Bucky. Hell, Everything else could be explained away well maybe not Howard knowing when he and Peggy were so important to founding of Shield but even then I still can't conceive of what it would it take to ignore Bucky the whole time he is with Peggy and not do something about it.
 
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