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Orange Fudge

MoonHunter

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So I was Rubber Ducking an idea for an OSR like game with my son. (inspired here) It was originally just an idea for a way to deal with all these fighter abilities that are effectively little spells. I may go on about that sometime.

However, in that process, I realized a way to solve part of my problem with Orange Fudge

The skill list is just way too large, especially since I was aiming for a six skill pyramid, with some other level 1s taking from flaws. I needed a way to keep the expression but with a smaller number.

Each skill will cascade into specialities. So Warfare Skill you will pick the speciality skill. You pick the speaking skill with specialities (Lie, Bluff, Convince, Command, Inspire, Seduce). So I would have a smaller list, but gives you speciality options. (One level one speciality. // Levels divided by 2 round up specialities// Pyramid skills get more specialties// . Extra specialities as gifts (double specialities available)? )

So drop a level on the ladder without speciality. This might solve the Skill Tree Problem.

Okay... that leaves me back to resolution.

1) I need to find a good way to define the number of xdF based on the drama of the moment. The #d continues to increase until the climax of the scene?
2) I need a way to resolve clashes better (everything is opposed except non dramatics)
 

MeMeMe

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Your previous links to your blog dont work any more (maybe because of the site upgrade?)

It's interesting seeing this thread now for the first time, and seeing how you initially wanted to move away from attributes, but are now re-including them. Why is that?

Personally my favourite way to run Fudge is to start from Fate 2e (PDF here), and tweak that. This is very different from Fate Core and is a lot closer to Fudge in design sensibility and playstyle.
 

Knaight

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Fudge is a serious contender for my favorite system, and it is by far the one I know best and have done the most homebrew in. So, let's get down to brass tacks.

So some of my design goals are.....

Universal, so I don't have to mess with changing it everytime I want to change genres, settings, etc. This means wider ability/ trait lists.

In specific

0) De-Emphasize the Ladder. And make a smaller one.

One possible

5) Extraordinary
4) Exceptional
3) Great
2) Good
1) Average
0) Poor
-1) Awful
Changed the numeric listings of the lab at this point.
That list is different, but it's no shorter. That's 7 items, just like Terrible-Superb (Legendary is explicitly an optional rule). Similarly moving it up didn't really do anything. I'm not saying don't change it (the adjectives are arbitrary), but it doesn't really have knock on effects.

1) We are also emphasizing values attached to the traits rather than wording.
A trait to define what it does. While you might be Good with computer programing, that is only a Lv1 trait.
Similarly, this doesn't really do anything. Because the ladder is used on both sides of tasks and conflicts the specific numbers fall out. What actually has an effect is the gap between compared values, which you also get if you just use the words as an ordinal scale, as that just conceals the math without changing it.

2) No attributes -
If you want a bonus for being strong or pretty, buy a gift for +1 in those situations
This is an entirely solid option.

3) Smaller Skill Tree -
Characters will start with one Lv3, two lv2, three Lv3 skills. It will use the column system... the level below must have more skills than the level above. To have a Lv3 skill, you must have at least two Lv2. To have two lv2, you must have three or more lv1
*The default Skill list should be a hybrid of the Hero System list, the FATE list, and Castle Falkenstein's list.
* Some renaming and redefining - Prowess Athletic, Alertness/ perception,
* Profession- substitute for skills related to professions, half value for major skills, (round up. so Lv1 and 2 =+1
* While there will be space for customization, the default list should handle most genres without having to be messed with.
Seems reasonable.

4) Gifts and Flaws
Start with X possible gift traits, to a maximum of Y. The difference between X and Y is paid for with flaws traits. The maximum number of flaws will be Z The GM will define X,Y, and Z for their tastes and Genre. (Supers needing a huge number of Gifts for powers for example).
*Some gifts are skill boosts either as an extra Level 1, or with two it is two.
*Some gifts are mechanical (game mech) or narrative (good or bad options)
*Some Gifts give you more skill points
*Some gifts expand a skill (feat/ stunt)
*Some gifts specialize a skill (+1 in general, +2 for very specific)
*Some give you Attribute bonus (Strong +1 to all said action)
*Flaws give -1 Mods to situations or require rolls in circumstances that should not require a roll or completely eliminate an action as an option.
This sounds pretty close to default as is, minus attributes. So it'll clearly work.

5) Powers
Spells are an action based list, needs one gift for MAgical Access. Each Spell List will be a skill.
Psionics the same.
Super Powers are Gift
The Power system will determine if there is power fatigue and when a roll is required.
Seems functional.

6) Resolution
*3dF because of the smaller numbers.
--I want to see if I can use an adjusting number of dice based on the dramatic importance of the scene. If it is just another no danger, narrate it though scene, 1dF. If it is the climactic ending of a dramatic campaign...4dF. Most Dramatic resolution will be 36d. It should be based on the desired results and the cost of failure.
*Bonus of +1 to any action that an everyman could perform.
*Each Trait adds +1, any leveled trait (like skills) are +1 per level.

*Resolution for clash. Not scene but conflict. This is an idea I had to reduce the amount of back and forth rolling during a conflict. Each roll would be for what would a number of rounds in most games. This

*Tracks could be used in longer resolution. The number of successes push the track to the right - in your favor. Reaching certain points on the track determines success. Someone resisting you will be moving your place on the track to the left... to either your failure or their success.

*Fudge Points will be in use... and will be used to modify the game world/ story line in minor ways in addition to all the rerolls or bonus to roll options.
This also seems largely solid (though mostly default). If you're using pushed tracks though you can have issues with conflicts just dragging on, especially when skills are comparable. You'll probably want a mechanic that drives things towards a conclusion. This could be a timer, this could be an escalation die type situation (where you move the track further and further with each success on later rounds), etc. A really good option might be to swipe a concept from Red Markets, where you start at two ends of a track and move towards the middle, eventually having to push to meet up. That gives a certain inexorability to matters.

I've been using 3dF for approximately ages. Similarly alternating the number of dice for the amount of chaos in is pretty easily covered. The bonus for an everyman task is just messy though; just assign a lower difficulty.

As for resolutions for conflicts, the track pushing potentially helps there.

As for Fudge points, reread that section. That use has been in there from the beginning, and there's some pretty decent advice here.

6b) Damage ... Undecided
**Could be simple tracks (
**Could be something like Cortex complications, with a number of DF determining the amount of danger or how often it will effect you.
**A hybrid of tracks with "waypoints" where things get more or less complicated

For Combat....
*Armor will block points of damage. Weapons will add points of damage, after the success/failure has been determined.
You've basically got an ODF/DDF system here, which is already pretty thoroughly covered. Take a look at the tech scale rules in particular here, but besides that you're covered by the basics. It's also potentially worth considering an individual wound system, Mutants and Masterminds style (if you look up Fudge Threshold you'll find something I've done to that effect online).


7) Options
Chapters of your life to give more gifts, most of them will be skill boosts. Start with X number of chapters (birth/ youth, early training, several adventures.). Each chapter can either provide a gift or fill in a gift.

Races could be skills or gifts/flaws, to determine how much bonus you get. If it is better than baseline (human, cat, what ever), it is a gift... if more problematic, a flaw
This sounds pretty much like a lifepath system - which might be an issue. They're extremely effective tools for getting setting specific information across in a hurry, much like classes. Also much like classes they tend to flounder a bit when you're aiming for something more generic. As for races clumps of gits/faults can often handle that pretty well.

Looking over all of this though, I'm seeing issues where it seems like you didn't get the rules; this also comes up in later posts (the default wound system is not 5-10 boxes that fill up and gradually grant penalties, each box is filled individually for one wound with higher numbers filling one box higher up. Changing this is fine, but it sounds like it wasn't really considered due to not being understood, which is less than ideal - particularly as it sounds like it would work really well for you. You should probably reread the system, and I don't mean the SRD. Get the core pdf and read from start to finish, or read the 10th Anniversary edition.

Seems like you're headed in a good direction. I definitely agree with contracting the ladder somewhat, especially because the original names were often kinda silly and confusing. ("Superb" is not obviously better than "Great" to the average person, for instance. Probably the opposite, if anything.)

Combat is one of my big issues with Fudge and Fate. It's really hard to do anything interesting with the current concepts, and it really feels like it needs to be either completely redesigned or just discarded and replaced by treating combat as a typical task resolution.
Fudge has some options Fate doesn't here, and I've found the simultaneous combat in particular can help make things more interesting. As for the ladder, there actually is some quantitative data from elsewhere that happens to back it up - which I'm including more because it's interesting (and usable for changes) than as a point of disagreement.
 

MoonHunter

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Other solutions - Still not ready to come back to this, but it needs to be recorded.

Odd Spin 1 - We could opt for a more Castle Falkenstein view of things... people are good at pretty much everything (except those things which absolutely require training). Thus we could have one +2, three +1 and one -2 (as everyone needs an extra weakness). Note: these are examples, not hard numbers. This may or may not have the cascade effect as noted in #21. Now you can have no more than two +2s, five +1, and three -2s (note shift of ladder and difficulties with this solution. ) Traits are +/-1 obviously (traits are gifts/ flaws/ or statements (which could go either way)

Odd Spin 2 - Now for scene/ exchange resolution (yes, yes but, no, no but are automatic in my world and have been since the 80s (though not with those cool phrases). I could take a page from the PbtA games. This dovetales with a very small list (almost FAE like). Think 7 to 10 skills (again cascade could happen.)

Altering the number of dice per drama of the roll is a great idea, but hard to impliment smoothly and mechanically.

Odd Spin 3 - There is one idea... but it starts making the game more FATEy. You have a number of token (plus some base tokens based on skill level). That determines the amount of drama you can add. Thus, you can take your skill level (against the obstacle). If things are a little chancy, it is automatically 1dF. You can then opt to spend tokens for more dice (up to two more for a total of three). Now if your defaults were going to defeat the obstacle by +2 or so, you can opt to take dice... sure you might succeed well, but now you have a chance to fail. This gets complicated as keeping track of your extra dice otkens, what you have spent, and so on....
 
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MoonHunter

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So I was doing another project and came across another idea that could solve my issue.

This is a cut down version of the Convergence Point skill list. This might solve my skill list issue.

Core Listing for this Updated 04/23/2019
Athletic
Awareness
Beast (Animal Handling)
Combative
Communication
Craft all those jobs/ tasks that are not mech or tech or know
Deception
Deduction
Influence (Resource)
Knowledge
Mechanic
Power
Survival/ Environmental
Technology
Vehicle

This is creeping upward again... but I think this is the best minimal set

Cutting block
Survival
Influence (could be gift) should be gift
Language (gift?) should be gift
TDE - type of power Power?
Vehicle
Beast

Ramblings......
Contacts would be gifts.
Social Rolls/ Culture- Cultures past the first to be a gift. Use Communication and Knowledge rolls.
Luck gift/flaw
Animal Handling (athletic and knowledge- training)
Interface is a power skills
Meta Powers would be under power
Strategy and Tactics/ Mental aspect of combative or is it a knowledge.
 
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Kneller

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I'd recommend finding Fudge Factor. It's been on and offline since the beginning. At one point, I downloaded the whole site and have it on a hard drive somewhere. I tinkered with it back in the day, but found it pretty limiting due to the strong central tendency of the dF. Anyway, Fudge Factor had tons of great hacks for the system. It's probably floating around there somewhere.
 

Base Delta Zero

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And here I am expanding the ladder.

Personally, I like FUDGE because it's easy to modify, you can casually swap core mechanics to fit the setting. Lots of specific abilities is probably not the way to go. That said, I've got a tiered list of skills hanging around somewhere, for when people find the concept of 'freeform' difficult to grasp.

Though, that said, some settings certainly lend themselves to vast lists of complex abilities.

Most actions will have little risk, no fudge die is rolled. You have time, you have tools, you have no pressure.

1dF possible complication to the action, but an average reward.

2dF possible injury/ complication to the action but a good reward

3dF Possible death and notable injury, but a great reward
Interesting concept. Not something I'm inclined towards myself, but interesting.
I suppose you could always just let the player choose how many dice to roll?



1) Improve rolls if spent before roll
Hmm. That's an interesting idea which I may adopt for TAFFY. Currently basic spending of Elan gets...
  • Add +1 to your result.
  • Reroll your dice.
  • Put any involved die (including opposed die) into a position of your choice.
  • Replace a roll result with 0.
Of course, it'd probably have to be +3 to be worth it, which... eh.

So I took "A cut to the arm" 2. That complication could either be applied as a modifier to rolls (-2 MOD) for immediate issues or more of a problem later (Festering cut 1, becomes a -3 MOD if you don't get medical treatment soon).
Okay, this is a good place for a Critical Chart. Been thinking about this kind of combat system instead of my current option where it's just damage slots. Or just adding a wound effect chart instead of a generic '-1 everything'.

Combat is one of my big issues with Fudge and Fate. It's really hard to do anything interesting with the current concepts, and it really feels like it needs to be either completely redesigned or just discarded and replaced by treating combat as a typical task resolution.
Eh... it's possible TAFFY has greatly diverged from its original usage, but I find the combat to be pretty good. It can be pretty lethal, but also reasonably flexible. If you need extra survivability, one thing I do is add a layer of ablative 'hit points' before actual damage is taken. (i.e., you've got 3 HP, every 3 damage you take, you reduce HP by 1. So if you suffered 4 damage, 1 would go to the injury track, the 3 HP soak the rest, and remaining HP is reduced to 2...)

Current system is
1: Attacker rolls. Add their combat skill, subtract target's defense skill.
2: Add weapon damage to get raw damage.
3: Calculate and subtract Damage Reduction, to get injury.
4: Subtract toughness from injury to get final results.
5: Compare to injury chart to determine results: 0 or less does nothing, 1-3 results in Graze, 4-5 Wound, 6+ Incapacitation. Grazes and Wounds have several bubbles, and when you fill in all the bubbles any further injury at that level is promoted to the next level up. Wounds also apply a -1 modifier to everything.

Obviously this doesn't look like the kind of thing you're looking for.

Fudge has some options Fate doesn't here, and I've found the simultaneous combat in particular can help make things more interesting.
Conversely, simultaneity is a bit of nightmare, since you start needing to resolve action conflicts. And IIRC the FUDGE simultaneous combat system doesn't allow for 'both miss/both hit'.
 

Knaight

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Conversely, simultaneity is a bit of nightmare, since you start needing to resolve action conflicts. And IIRC the FUDGE simultaneous combat system doesn't allow for 'both miss/both hit'.
Stances cover that - you're not going to get a both hit in neutral stance (both miss, yes), but a net aggressive stance opens up both hit, and a net defensive stance significantly increases the odds of a both miss.

As for action conflicts, generally the easy way to resolve that is that the better roll dictates the action as much as possible.
 

MeMeMe

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Conversely, simultaneity is a bit of nightmare, since you start needing to resolve action conflicts. And IIRC the FUDGE simultaneous combat system doesn't allow for 'both miss/both hit'.
It can be tricky. You do have to be careful with simultaneous exchanges, to go through everyone's declarations and give them a chance to revise when they see what other people are doing if it makes sense they'd be able to do that. In practice, it flows pretty well.

The combat stance modifiers allow for simultaneous hits and misses, even without addressing unopposed actions, because you can take modifiers. If you go all out on attack (-2 defence, +2 attack, both modifiers apply to same roll), you are much more likely to end up with bot hitting each other.
 
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