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[Overwatch Thread the 5th] Have you seen some of the things Talon wears?

Aikireikinu

Tsundere Cat
RPGnet Member
Validated User
Yeah, I mean, RL/RQ works in the sense in that it forces teams to have tanks and support, which can lead to a better game, but that's all it does. It's not going to fix the skill differential across heroes issue.
 

taleswapper

Social Justice Lazy Warlord
Validated User
How do you handle a platinum mercy forced to play lucio at gold level? Same exact thing.


I am not saying that if you are a good Widow you will be a good Ana. I'm saying that there's nothing magical about the categories that make a good lucio into a good mercy, and that people might have skillsets that make them good at a subset of heroes across categories. You can have whatever mindset you want, if you can't aim you can't Ana, but you can Mercy.

I mean, are you really saying that soldier and symmetra (both dps class) have more in common than soldier and Baptiste (different classes) when it comes to actually playing them? That Reinhart and Hammond plays more the same than Ana and Widow?
One could suppose that the categories of DPS and Tank and Support are not meaningful. I do not suppose that, however. To the extent that they are meaningful, yes there is an important distinction between playing Widow and Ana. Whereas playing Mercy and Lucio are not as distinct in terms of one's in-game focus. In fact, someone who understands support play can play a credible Lucio in a support role. They may very well not be able to play DPS/duelist Lucio. but Lucio does not have to be played that way (though he certainly can, I myself enjoy taking duels with hard to reach DPS players as Lucio).

And as far as Ana's aim, if Ana is having difficulty hitting DPS like Genji or Tracer, having a Zen as off-heal can take that pressure off. If Ana is having difficulty hitting her main tanks, that is a much more serious problem than poor aim. Ana doesn't necessarily need good aim to main heal. What Ana really does require, however, is a really excellent support mindset. Ana has so much utility in her kit and such a huge responsibility on her team that it really is more about seeing what the team needs and making the best decisions in the moment. DPS players really don't have to do that so much as hyper-focus on whatever target has been designated. Of course, currently Overwatch is rarely played as a team game outside the highest levels of play so these divisions are poorly understood.

As far as Soldier and Symmetra, vs Soldier and Baptiste- that's an interesting example. Soldier has at least a bit of healer in his kit so some Soldier players might have a bit of a support mindset mixed in. For the ones who don't, however, I would much rather see a Soldier player on Sym than on Baptiste. One of the most dispiriting things to see in game is a DPS Baptiste (or DPS Moira, for that matter). If your team has a Baptiste playing with a DPS mindset, and the other team has a legit main healer, your team will lose the vast majority of the time.
 

Dragon_Blooded

Social Justice Main Tank
Validated User
Yeah, I mean, RL/RQ works in the sense in that it forces teams to have tanks and support, which can lead to a better game, but that's all it does. It's not going to fix the skill differential across heroes issue.
This. Forced 2/2/2 is about guaranteeing a semi-decent teamcomp. It's about avoiding situations like realizing halfway through a team fight that your main healer switched to Reaper and you're solo healing as Zenyatta. It's more about making the whole experience more enjoyable to everyone than making your individual experience more enjoyable (particularly if you're the kind of player who switches off tank or healer to DPS without warning the team, the new system is engineered to make this kind of behavior impossible).

A side effect of this is forcing players to learn specific roles instead of specific characters.

Eduardo Penna
 
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CarpeGuitarrem

Blogger and gamer
Validated User
I mean, there's technically nothing stopping your main healer from switching off onto a Reddit Lucio booping in their backline. I actually am concerned that we'll see folks take up specific tanks/healers just to satisfy their wish to "hard carry" as a pseudo-DPS.
 

taleswapper

Social Justice Lazy Warlord
Validated User
I mean, there's technically nothing stopping your main healer from switching off onto a Reddit Lucio booping in their backline. I actually am concerned that we'll see folks take up specific tanks/healers just to satisfy their wish to "hard carry" as a pseudo-DPS.
There's no change that will make things perfect. What they're doing is facilitating better games. No one is under any illusion that every problem in the game can be solved.
 

Xander

Registered User
Validated User
Heh, I think the answer is "QP, dude." to these many role questions.

The QP meta means you might find the strong team player who will gladly switch to any role, or the rando who can literally only play Widow.

Part of the game to is to learn to adapt to different players, not just different characters, and try to fit together in your 10 minute game to make a win. Some will be good, most will be awful, but you can only control your own effort.

Mystery Heroes is very liberating because you don't have to worry about the character, you just try to make do with whatever you get. 4 Mercys? No idea how to play Sombra? etc
 

Ryom

Registered User
Validated User
How do you handle a platinum mercy forced to play lucio at gold level? Same exact thing.
Already addressed in my prior posts. The matchmaker can easily be adjusted to avoid placing two "mains" on the same team except as a last resort. We aren't going for perfect here, we're going for better. The biggest non-argument that anti-2/2/2 folks are making on the Blizz forums is "but it won't fix EVERYTHING!"
 

Ryom

Registered User
Validated User
The matchmaker is a black box. Currently it doesn't seem to take hero time into account. But it could when it only has to avoid collisions with 2 players instead of 5.
 

Korhal_IV

Active member
Validated User
Also, I don't think it's a viable hypothesis that people didn't use LFG because they don't want 2-2-2. I, for instance, have been clamoring for 2-2-2 for some time now, but I did not use LFG after about the first week it was available. Why? I did not find it convenient. And I did not want to group with strangers.
RL/RQ will group you with strangers, and every disappointing experience you had in LFG will be repeated and, this time, unavoidable. Like I said last time, you don't want new tools to improve the game, you want a community from which you can pick decent players. No matchmaker is going to give you the set of players you are hoping for; you have to go out and find them yourself.
 
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