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[Overwatch Thread the 5th] Have you seen some of the things Talon wears?

taleswapper

Social Justice Lazy Warlord
Validated User
I will agree that 2-2-2 will make adding new tanks and support, and that is a benefit that I hadn't considered. It's a lot easier to balance a new tank if you only have to consider how it will work alongside one other tank.
This is certainly true. But even more than this, it will be much easier to balance every hero in an environment with locked 2-2-2. That was one of the explicit considerations that Jeff brought up when he first started talking a bit more openly about this in the early part of this year.
 

Ryom

Registered User
Validated User
Yes, the design for new tanks and supports was always going to be hamstrung by role-stacking if it remained a possibility. Adding in another shield tank or another passive AOE support would mean 3 shield tanks under the effect of triple AOE healing. That line-up would be oppressive beyond belief. But with role-lock 2/2/2 Blizzard is free to design new heroes without worrying about absolutely insane stacking synergy.
 

Tuxedo Mask

Intl. Man of Mystery
Validated User
I'm excited for RL/RQ mostly because I hope it will improve matchmaking purely by having role based SR.

Me, for example, I'm much more of a tactical player than a mechanical one. I'm 45 and my reactions and aim aren't what they used to be (and they didn't used to be that great either...) but I've been playing competitive FPS games for decades and I play smart. My tactical and positional play, awareness and 'game sense' are very good, but my mechanical skills are lacking, so I play a great offtank, main or secondary support, and an OK main tank, but my DPS isn't as good.

But with a single SR, I felt if I played DPS I was directly screwing the entire team, because I was put in this match because of my 2900 SR but as any DPS hero I wasn't anywhere near that. Which then served to make the problem worse because not only was I worse at those heroes naturally, but I also never practiced them because I felt it wasn't fair to others to do so.

Role based SR fixes that for me. Well, in theory it does, of course we'll have to see how it plays out in reality. But it will be nice to sometimes queue as DPS and know I'm not screwing my team by playing at 2000 SR on an account rated 3000.

Another aspect is that it will give friends better options to play together. I play with my wife a lot (we actually met in the game) and I'm higher rated than she is, by around 1000SR, and that has sometimes been a problem for us - we don't play comp that often but we've had seasons where she got a bad placement and ended up more than 1000 below me and we had to skip a season, but with role based SR, she can queue as support (her best role) and me as DPS (my worst role), avoid the SR gap issues and get a better experience.
 

Aikireikinu

Tsundere Cat
RPGnet Member
Validated User
I do wonder how role-based MMR will work in groups. Comp has the 1000 or 500 SR gap cutoff, but QP doesn't, so groups (whether from LFG or actively grouping with friends) could lead to some weird balance issues. Not really any different from now, but I could see, say, a high ranked support grouping with a low-ranked DPS, or vice-versa being kind of wonky.

I suppose in a way, it would encourage DPS to group, as that way they could try to jump the queue that solo DPS will face.
 

Ryom

Registered User
Validated User

Poll put up on the Blizzard Overwatch forum. Last I checked it showed 75% in favor of RL+RQ and 75% in favor of a scoreboard. Torb's rework is the only one considered largely "successful."
 

Ryom

Registered User
Validated User
Had a thrower group in my competitive placements...


On a lighter note, QP has been fun... no throwers there :p

 

Ryom

Registered User
Validated User
The anti-GOATs balancing at work. Too bad those changes negatively impacted tanking in 2/2/2 on the ladder.
 

Dragon_Blooded

Social Justice Main Tank
Validated User
The anti-GOATs balancing at work. Too bad those changes negatively impacted tanking in 2/2/2 on the ladder.
Even though pro play seems to be leaning away from playing GOATs all the time, I still hope we get forced 2-2-2 from stage 4 onwards (and have it implemented for everyone, not just in the OWL). Not so much for the pro players' sake, but because it actually opens up design space for the devs, who no longer have to worry about crazy role stacking comps when creating new heroes, especially new tanks and healers.

The game will need a giant balance pass though, to make many of the heroes nerfed or buffed due to the GOATs meta viable in a 2-2-2 format. The community will throw a hissy for over some of the changes ("What do you mean Brig is getting buffed?!?!"), but overall it will make for a better game IMO, since 2-2-2 will future-proof OW against many of the incentives that led to GOATs being so dominant.

(Also, it's still less of a structural change than getting rid of hero stacking, which turned out to be the best decision for the game for similar reasons forced 2-2-2 is a good change, and like forced 2-2-2 had a lot of players being very vocal against it)

Eduardo Penna
 
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