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[Overwatch Thread the 5th] Have you seen some of the things Talon wears?

darkgloomie

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I'm against role-based SR. Characters of the same role aren't interchangeable, you can't expect a grandmaster Reinhardt to also be a grandmaster DVa or Winston, it's a completely different playstyle. Same thing with supports, an Ana and a Zen and a Lucio are extrenely different, and DPS are even more varied since their roster is twice as big as the other two.
 

taleswapper

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I'm against role-based SR. Characters of the same role aren't interchangeable, you can't expect a grandmaster Reinhardt to also be a grandmaster DVa or Winston, it's a completely different playstyle. Same thing with supports, an Ana and a Zen and a Lucio are extrenely different, and DPS are even more varied since their roster is twice as big as the other two.
Of course, right now that issue is even worse as your SR is based not just on the heroes of a single role (and depending upon how those heroes are subdivided, that might only be 3 heroes- main tank or main healer, for instance), but on the heroes of every role- the entire roster. So if role based SR is a problem, then surely the status quo is a nightmare.
 

darkgloomie

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Of course, right now that issue is even worse as your SR is based not just on the heroes of a single role (and depending upon how those heroes are subdivided, that might only be 3 heroes- main tank or main healer, for instance), but on the heroes of every role- the entire roster. So if role based SR is a problem, then surely the status quo is a nightmare.
Why? Without specific role SR there's no expectation that you should be able to play everything at the same level. If you put emphasis on the role instead of on the player more people will only think of your role instead of the characters you're playing.
 

taleswapper

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Why? Without specific role SR there's no expectation that you should be able to play everything at the same level. If you put emphasis on the role instead of on the player more people will only think of your role instead of the characters you're playing.
The system currently rates you at one particular level. And it does not match people up based on the heroes they play. So, if you currently have a bunch of hours as Moira and Lucio and Mercy say, and you queue into a match with 3 other people who primarily play healers, the game will expect you all to perform at normal levels even though you are either going to be running a 4 healer comp (less than ideal) or one or two of you are going to flex onto roles that you don't normally play.

And then the game will adjust your SR based on your performance in that match, because the system does currently expect you to be able to play all heroes at the same level. Now, the people playing the game don't necessarily expect that. That's why they've been so adamantly requesting role based SR and role queue- so that the above scenario does not happen, overall match quality improves, and SR more accurately reflects the abilities of the player base rather than being influenced so heavily by the randomness of the current matchmaker. (And there's a lot to unpack there, but Jeff is on the record as saying that he, and his team, believe that the current MMR system and matchmaker do reflect player ability- unless someone has to flex onto a role that they don't normally play- hence the need for role queue and role based SR).

ETA:Of course, this does get into the issue of whether they allow for more than 3 roles (tank, healer, DPS). The pros who have weighed in have suggested that 6 roles would be necessary and I tend to agree. The alternative at the other end of the scale would be 30 (or however many characters are in the game at whatever point) roles, but I think that introduces more problems than it solves.
 

CarpeGuitarrem

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Yeah, moving onto a character or a role you don't normally play, in any game, will dramatically drop your effective skill level because of everything you need to relearn; I believe this has actually been observed with evidence in similar games.
 

Ryom

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There are plenty of "role mains" that are say, a Diamond DPS, but a Gold support. When these players don't get to DPS, it causes imbalanced games for everyone on the team. A more granular role-based skill rating should help more matches not feel like stomps. I can expect a DPS main to have a roster of several different DPS that they can play at the same skill level, but then in the current system they also need to play several tanks and several healers at the same skill level if they ever want to play something else for awhile, which is a hell of a lot to ask in the higher ranks. Some people DO switch roles, fall hard, and end up tanking a lot of games on their way down because of this issue. Otherwise, they are stuck buying a whole new account, and you hear "this is my tank alt" in your games... until they start losing and tilt, then all of a sudden a Diamond Genji appears in a Gold level game and things get nasty for everyone. Role based SR and role-queue stops this.

Role based SR + Role Queue is very welcome in my book.
 

Q99

Genderpunk
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The Spitfire vs Shanghai match right now is pretty good

*Edit*

Spoiler: Show

Shanghai wins! Last map of the last match, 3/2!
 
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taleswapper

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The Spitfire vs Shanghai match right now is pretty good
Yep. Awesome match. While I realize that there are (at least a couple of) top tier teams who really do seem (at this point) to stand out, I am loving the fact that so many teams are in that scrappy, competitive middle tier where they can credibly be on the cusp of making it to the playoffs.
 

kenichi-kun

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Validated User
From what I hear, the Titans-Hunters game was insane. Gonna rewatch it when I get home.

Still sad about Eternal struggling, current main 2 fave-s are Eternal and Hunters, and second tier of Shock, Outlaws, Fusion and Dynasty, more or less. I think...I do also kinda like Toronto and Reign from the expanion teams.
 

taleswapper

Social Justice Lazy Warlord
Validated User
From what I hear, the Titans-Hunters game was insane. Gonna rewatch it when I get home.

Still sad about Eternal struggling, current main 2 fave-s are Eternal and Hunters, and second tier of Shock, Outlaws, Fusion and Dynasty, more or less. I think...I do also kinda like Toronto and Reign from the expanion teams.
Titans v. Hunters was amazing. And a lot of time is going to be spent looking at the game by every other team in the league.
 
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