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Pandemonium Games and the strange death of WEG

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hellsreach

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OK. I got to page three bfore i was sick of the discussion so forgive me if the thread got back on track.

*Who is Pandemonium?

*Why is the art fo the D6 Gamemasters Sheild tide in with the what looks like a new, not WEG, logo?

*Is this Pandemonium going to publish new D6 product or at least sell off the old D6 product?

Pandemonium Games was once an aborted plan to expand into retail. After securing the computer infrastructure, I used that as a shell of WEG direct sales.

I used art from the D6 Core books/ GM screen because I like the art and think it has the potential to be rather iconic.

Pandemonium Games is not a company at all. It's a virtual retail shell for WEG and really not even that anymore. It was never intended as a publishing inprint and will have nothing to do with publishing D6. For all intents and purposes, it's usefulness has passed and will probably never again see the light of day.

I've never tried to hide that Pandemonium Games was a shell for WEG retail and, as it is not a company in it's own right, any debts incured by Pandemonium Games (like the Septimus preorders) are owned by Purgatory Publishing (WEG's parent company).

Though it is a different matter, D6 will be spun of into its own company and while I will have owner shares in that company, the intent is for that company to be privately owned by many different publishers and gamers. Thus, it is reasonable to assume that I could be pushed out of haivng any authority over the D6 System if people feel I'm not up to the task of running things. Obviously many people do.
 
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hellsreach

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I don't think most publishers have their fulfillment houses holding their entire stock of product, just for the fact that doing so would make conventions appearances a real pain in the ass. Eric quite clearly used "I don't have any product to mail out because its all at an out of state fulfillment house" as an excuse for not mailing anything to people were willing to take product in lieu of cash refund, even if they were willing to absorb shipping fees. ( http://forum.rpg.net/showpost.php?p=9128600&postcount=87 )

Sure, being in arrears may not mean a company is insolvent. However, the fact that on top of all the preorders remaining unrefunded for months, there are two years worth of back taxes to be dealt with ( http://forum.rpg.net/showpost.php?p=9121659&postcount=28 ) suggests that those outstanding accounts receivable aren't the problem. It also gives one even more reason to lean toward an assessment of insolvency, rather than considering the problem a mere temporary cash flow issue.
Company funds have never gone to back taxes. Back taxes are PERSONAL property taxes and that is one of the major reason I had to put WEG on the back burner and go back to work -- to pay property taxes on my house (along with a mortgage, child support, gasoline to get places, credit cards) -- if you must know my personal financial obligations.

In fact, WEG's problem for the last several months has really ONLY been one of cash flow, and while that is a problem it is not unsual for most small businesses to have period of cash flow issues.

Again, WEG is not insolvent and although you would love to creatively interpret everything I say to deny that, it doesn't change the truth.
 

BlackSheep

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Validated User
Amazon comes to mind... Buy.com does have a bit of a rep too, now that I think about it...
Really? Can't say I've shopped with Buy, but I've never had any issues with Amazon. I know they have a rep on RPG.net for screwing up pre-orders, but I figured that was just a matter of messing up release dates and stock levels. Standard practice over here is to charge pre-orders when the goods ship, not when the order's placed, and I thought Amazon did the same.
 

Whiskeyjack

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Though it is a different matter, D6 will be spun of into its own company and while I will have owner shares in that company, the intent is for that company to be privately owned by many different publishers and gamers. Thus, it is reasonable to assume that I could be pushed out of haivng any authority over the D6 System if people feel I'm not up to the task of running things. Obviously many people do.
Well if your start was any indication, good luck with that. In your pleading for interested parties, and asked to be e-mailed... it is funny how you never even bothered to acknowledge mine. I mean I have enough money to jet off to Europe for 6 months, I had some more kicking around for a fun investment. You couldn't be bothered to even say, "Hey, thanks for the interest." after you asked to be contacted.

You know after that, and following enough of these threads, it has become pretty obvious it would be a bad investment. Maybe if someone else was running the show I might reconsider, but for now that card game is looking a lot more appealing.

Funny enough, I do hope you can turn things around, I have no axe to grind, nor do I enjoy seeing people fail. But seriously take a step back and look really hard at what you have brought on yourself.
 

Bobcat

Messin' with
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Amazon comes to mind... Buy.com does have a bit of a rep too, now that I think about it...
:confused:

You're seriously saying that Amazon.com and Buy.com make a common practice of taking customers' money and not delivering any product in return? Really? How are they still in business then?

I don't know about Buy.com since I've never ordered from them, but Amazon.com doesn't charge until an order ships and whenever something's gone missing they've sent me another one. Buy.com probably does things the same way.

I'm pretty sure that companies that regularly charge people for things and then fail to deliver don't to stay in business very long.
 

Black Mamba

Retired User
You're seriously saying that Amazon.com and Buy.com make a common practice of taking customers' money and not delivering any product in return? Really? How are they still in business then?

I don't know about Buy.com since I've never ordered from them, but Amazon.com doesn't charge until an order ships and whenever something's gone missing they've sent me another one. Buy.com probably does things the same way.
I have to agree. I routinely purchase 10-15 books and 2-5 DVDs per month from Amazon, and have done so for the last 2 years, and I have never had a problem with receiving an item. I have had problems waiting for them to get an item I ordered in but they have never charged my account for anything until it has been shipped. Waiting for an item to ship and paying for an item and then waiting for it to ship are two different things.
 

zenten

Active member
Validated User
The key difference here is that buying a non-RPG product in the past year from a company in worse shape than this one usually entails receiving the product after payment. And right now there's over a hundred people who can say that hasn't been happening.
Receiving it late though. They're just usually smart enough to say "they're on backorder". This guy has been too transparent with his company practices to do that.
 

jgants

Registered User
Validated User
Company funds have never gone to back taxes. Back taxes are PERSONAL property taxes and that is one of the major reason I had to put WEG on the back burner and go back to work -- to pay property taxes on my house (along with a mortgage, child support, gasoline to get places, credit cards) -- if you must know my personal financial obligations.

In fact, WEG's problem for the last several months has really ONLY been one of cash flow, and while that is a problem it is not unsual for most small businesses to have period of cash flow issues.

Again, WEG is not insolvent and although you would love to creatively interpret everything I say to deny that, it doesn't change the truth.
Ah, the old keep the business solvent by taking on personal debt strategy. Never a good idea, and the opposite of the point of establishing a corporation, but not all that uncommon among passionate small business owners.

But here's the thing - WEG is still broke, even if it gets in that A/R money (since it will go to paying off the liabilities). It still lacks a product people want to buy, with tons of old inventory sitting around taking up space. There's still no money to produce new products. It still won't make enough money to pay a living wage. And frankly, I've seen nothing to suggest that the business management will be any less poor in the future.

I still don't see a future for WEG. Becoming bankrupt is hardly the only good reason to close a business. If it won't make money and causes a strain on the owner's personal life, that's an excellent reason to walk away from a business. Pride and passion are nice, but sometimes cold, hard logic is the smarter way to think about things.

Receiving it late though. They're just usually smart enough to say "they're on backorder". This guy has been too transparent with his company practices to do that.
Oh come on, you can't be serious. Backordered means exactly that - the number of orders the retailer has received is in excess of the number of products they recieved from the distributor. They aren't lying to you or anything. Amazon and Buy and anyone else who has a preorder that becomes backordered have done nothing wrong - the distributor or manufacturer simply can't meet the number of orders they want.

Plus, you keep ignoring the fact that they don't charge you the money up front.

That's not even remotely close to this situation - where someone took money for a product then didn't give it to them (because they suddenly figured out they couldn't afford to make it) and hasn't given them back their money for months (on a product they were supposed to recieve nearly a year ago now).
 

John Lemming

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You know - and this is a general observation - you'd think in an industry made up almost exclusively of people with above-average vocabularies, the word "professionalism" would be more widely known.
 
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