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[PBtA] Hearing the phrase "The best thing to do is avoid rolling dice"

Ulzgoroth

Mad Scientist
Validated User
Sure, but I'm assuming that everyone who plays with me is playing in good faith (which very well could include telling me, "I'm not having fun here, so I'm going to bow out). I'm not overly worried about someone doing something like this, because they just are not going to be playing with me for very long.
To me, having that perverse incentive in your game structure is a severe problem regardless of how people play around it. And it seems easy to not have that problem.
 

Derrick Kapchinsky

Registered User
Validated User
To be honest, picking the action that will grant the character the highest chance of accomplishing the player's objective seems like the most straightforward way to play. It seems like a pretty big problem if that is playing in bad faith.
I have no problem with people wanting to make moves with their high stats. Tell me that and I'll help you do it. What I consider to be bad faith is lying to me about what you want in order to do it.
 

Derrick Kapchinsky

Registered User
Validated User
To me, having that perverse incentive in your game structure is a severe problem regardless of how people play around it. And it seems easy to not have that problem.
I guess I just don't understand how it's a perverse incentive. Like I said a moment ago, if you want to Seize By Force, that's cool. I will work with you so that you can do that. But you actually have to make the move fictionally as well as mechanically.
 

Simon Marks

hot DAMN!
Validated User
To be honest, picking the action that will grant the character the highest chance of accomplishing the player's objective seems like the most straightforward way to play. It seems like a pretty big problem if that is playing in bad faith.
I think there can be a huge difference between the Player's objective and the Character's objective. My character want's to succeed with the minimum fuss and bother. I want high octane action, tension and intrigue, and seeing where this crazy rabbit hole goes.

I think this is why I enjoy games like this I suppose.
 

Strange Visitor

Grumpy Grognard
Validated User
"I'd rather not act than risk failure" - sure, and someone who can't swim would say "I'd rather sit on the edge than get in the pool". It's just a skill that needs to be learned.
This assumes they have the faintest interest in learning to swim. Or that they'd ever be any good at if they did. Those are not self-evident truths.
 

Strange Visitor

Grumpy Grognard
Validated User
I think there can be a huge difference between the Player's objective and the Character's objective. My character want's to succeed with the minimum fuss and bother. I want high octane action, tension and intrigue, and seeing where this crazy rabbit hole goes.

I think this is why I enjoy games like this I suppose.
I think that gap is rather much less extreme in many players' cases, particularly once in play.
 

manwhat

Thoroughly mediocre GM.
RPGnet Member
Validated User
I think that gap is rather much less extreme in many players' cases, particularly once in play.
There are some goals you'll almost always have in common, in the sense that RPGs have objectives. Like in DnD, maybe your group players forever and will never 'win', but you'll probably interpret a TPK as a significant 'loss'. Similarly if you're playing some political intrigue game, and circumstances are such that your character is irrevocably exiled from the main setting, that's also probably a loss. In that sense, your goals align.

But as long as you don't lose overall, setbacks are pretty fun. In Chronicles of Darkness games as an example, you set Aspirations for your character - and your aspirations are allowed to be both in-character and out-of-character. So sure, "take down the bad guy" is a valid aspiration, but so is "lose a friend". Your character definitely doesn't want to lose a friend - but you're interested in playing through that experience, so you signal that to the GM.
It's just a skill that can be learned. My players were formerly basically "only DnD" players, but they got into it pretty quickly and by now one player has already written "get involved in bad magic" on their character sheet even though their character is strongly opposed to it.

Similarly we played a bit of Follow, which is a GMless RPG, and even I was surprised when after half the main characters were described setting off on a journey, one of the players controlling a character who remained ahead said "damn, that sure does look like a big storm on the horizon". A storm is bad for the characters! But playing through the storm is fun.

God of War 2018 is a fun videogame that got a bunch of GOTY awards. It's about A Dad And His Boy going to a mountain to scatter his mother's ashes. Dad And Boy (at least at the journey's beginning) would probably have loved it if they just had a peaceful hike, scattered the ashes, and got back home.
But the player enjoys it much more when they have to fight through hordes of undead and slay a dragon along the way.
 

LatinaBunny

Cyberprep Warrior
Validated User
But really I just see it as something that comes with experience playing in such games. Someone who can't swim is likely to not be a big fan of swimming, but get them in the water enough times and eventually they'll be able to work something out. Same goes for other skills in RPGs, like being able to easily switch between being in and out of character, or being able to improvise something.

"I'd rather not act than risk failure" - sure, and someone who can't swim would say "I'd rather sit on the edge than get in the pool". It's just a skill that needs to be learned.
Or maybe I don’t want to swim in that particular pool of water (aka those ptba games and games like those)? I can still find other rpgs that could suit me better, I’m sure.

Edited to add: I really, really hope I’m misunderstanding your post.
 

manwhat

Thoroughly mediocre GM.
RPGnet Member
Validated User
This is projecting an assumption on other people that many pretty clearly do not share.
Unless you only enjoy media in which the characters always when and never lose, I'm pretty sure some kind of back and forth conflict is the basis of most stories.
It's not a skill that needs to be learned. Insofar as it's a skill rather than a taste, it's one that many of us have no need or desire to ever learn.
This assumes they have the faintest interest in learning to swim. Or that they'd ever be any good at if they did. Those are not self-evident truths.
Or maybe I don’t want to swim in that particular pool of water (aka those ptba games and games like those)? I can still find other rpgs that could suit me better, I’m sure.
This all just seems like sitting-on-the-edge-of-the-pool talk.

"Come swim with us! Learning is easy, give it a shot!"
"It's not about skill. I just don't want to swim and I don't need to learn."
"You'll be able to play stuff like water polo and surf and so on."
"That assumes I have the faintest interest in learning to swim. Or that I'd be any good at swimming or surfing and water polo."
"It'll help if you're ever thrown overboard or you need to get somewhere by swimming."
"I'll never need or want to get anywhere by water. I can find other routes that suit me better."
 
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