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Questioning regarding Rogue Traders vs Inquisition

kodegret

Retired User
So my question is this I am having a war hammer discussion with a friend. Now if a rouge trader has a warrant of trade that was signed by the Emperor himself. Can the Adeptus Mechanicus or Inquisition seize anything it wants from the Trader?.

I know normally the Inquisition can ask but the warrant but the trader doesn't have to obey it.
 

KaijuGooGoo

Not Woke until I’ve had my Coffee
RPGnet Member
Validated User
Re: Questioning regarding Rouge Traders vs Inquisition

The question isn't so much the legal right, as much as how hard can the Inquisition or the AM make the Trader's life if they don't cooperate, and if the Trader has friends of his own within those groups. A Trader can probably refuse demands from low and mid-level sources, with a combination of legality and intimidation, but an Inquisitor is going to be hard to say no to. Given the Trader probably has AdMech people on the ship, how much does he want to test their loyalty if they get an order from their superiors to go on strike?
 

kodegret

Retired User
Re: Questioning regarding Rouge Traders vs Inquisition

This particular trader this is OC RP thing. But it follows warhammer lore to key factors. It's a Dynasty that has existed since the great crusade, so this trader has alot of goodies basically. The argument is the Inquisitor can show up take what he wants and thats all there is to it. While the trader claims the warrant prevents it and the fact is was signed by the Emperor adds that the Inquisition can over rule it has Imperial dogma states no one is empowered enough to over turn a sanction made by the god emperor. I am aware one can but it takes like huge council moves to over turn a decision etc the high lords of terra and other matters. Just that an inquisitor alone cannot do that.

I am just trying to find out who is more right here.
 

Slybrarian

Self-Replicating Machine
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Validated User
Re: Questioning regarding Rouge Traders vs Inquisition

Legally, a single inquisitor would be on shakey grounds giving a Rogue Trader orders even at the best of times, with a generic Warrant, because of their rank in the Imperial hierarchy. Newer warrants may have clauses that allow the Inquisition more power, but in this case it sounds like he's out of luck, because there's no contradicting a warrant signed by the Emperor. (Assuming it has very broad terms.) He'd need a lot of backing and some very good reasons to get past that barrier, especially since it would inevitably cause a political shitstorm the size of the Eye of Chaos. Other Traders would defend him simply to protect their own rights, the Administrata would have to set up entire new continent-sized divisions just to sort through the legal paperwork, and the Ecclesiarchy is going to call anyone disobeying the Emperor a heretic. That's before getting into all the other webs of favors and feuds that are inherent in dealing with both Rogue Traders and Inquisitorial internal politics. If the Trader has a lot of friends, the Inquisitor is going to be in a very bad position, while if they have lots of enemies and are down on their luck financially the opposite may be true.

So basically, their best bet is not to march aboard and start giving orders, but instead find something the Trader would rather have than whatever shiny it is the Inquisitor wants. Simply storming aboard is more likely to end up with him listed as missing in space, presumed eaten by kraken, with the Trader insisting that the guy never made it aboard.
 

Ka_ge2020

Registered User
Validated User
Re: Questioning regarding Rouge Traders vs Inquisition

So my question is this I am having a war hammer discussion with a friend. Now if a rouge trader has a warrant of trade that was signed by the Emperor himself. Can the Adeptus Mechanicus or Inquisition seize anything it wants from the Trader?.

I know normally the Inquisition can ask but the warrant but the trader doesn't have to obey it.
As with all things Warhammer, it depends. Anyone is going to find it hard to justify to someone why Rogue Trader X must hand over* Item Y, especially given how they venerable they are (though do they have a history of dubious activity--probably would modify things somewhat). It would depend on a wide number of factors. For example, what is Item Y to Rogue Trader X? How much do they have invested in it either personally, economically, or whatever? Similarly, how much does the Adeptus Mechanicus or Inquisition actually want Item Y?

Can any of the parties involve bring in some form of leverage? The aforementioned poor track record on behalf of Rogue Trader Y would count against them, but on the other hand if their hereditary free charter comes with a bunch of dynastic friends in high places. Does the Inquisitor have enough influence or, if they did, have they done something daft like not bring with them the capability of either enforcing the "request" or preventing them getting out of there too costly?

If the Adeptus Mechanicus wants something, the question comes how much do you want it, how much do they want it, and can you afford to have them pull out their involvement on Rogue Trader X's fleet?

And remember: Sometimes in Warhammer the ability to enforce one's request can make a significant difference. Put another way, asking "So you and whose army" can speak volumes when the other person can go, "Well..." and then promptly holds up their hands and starts counting military elements on their fingers.

Realistically there is nothing to prevent anyone ignoring anyone else if they don't acknowledge the authority of that individual. It's just such a decision often comes with some or many consequences that you're going to have to deal with. Officially, though? I don't really see that the Adeptus Mechanicus has much of a legal leg to stand on, while the Inquisition has: the authority of the Emperor.
 
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Eled the Worm Tamer

Spider Jeruselem's Warior
Validated User
Re: Questioning regarding Rouge Traders vs Inquisition

Theres also the question, assuming the Inquisitor can put together that might, can they do so before the Rogue TRader simply vanishes out beyond the borders of the Imperium where the Inquisitorial Rosete becomes a bit of ugly jewelry, but a Warrant of TRade unfurls to full grandeur.

A trader so pressed might find the most unlikely of allies, as for so ancient a warrant to be brow beaten like that sets dangerous precedent, thus drawing in other dynasties.

If the likes of Calgos Winterscale start thinking this is an expansion of inquisitorial power at expense of Rogue traders, you can bet they will want to nip things in the bud long before they have any skin in the game.
 

kodegret

Retired User
Re: Questioning regarding Rouge Traders vs Inquisition

I am well aware of these details and to my given knowledge. There is no instance of anyone demanding anything yet but someone saying they the Inquisition has a right to anything the trader has in a legal sense. The trader is arguing this stating he has no right and no to push it. This trader has a large force at his beck and call and a fairly large fleet to add so they created something like a small empire for themselves from what I understand.

This inquisitor is out gunned ship and manpower wise and has no friends to back him up. while this trader is fairly friendly with other Inquisitor and Magos from the AM and other traders.
 

Rose Embolism

Registered User
Validated User
Re: Questioning regarding Rouge Traders vs Inquisition

Well it makes sense that in the Grim Future Where There's Only War that makeup of all forms would be banned in the Empire. Therefore even with a writ signed directly by the Emperor, the Inquisitor might be able to shut the Rouge Trader down, especially if he makes the case that this is distracting people away from Warlike pursuits. Rouge sounds suspiciously like something those not-so-manly Eldarin would use.
 

Ka_ge2020

Registered User
Validated User
Re: Questioning regarding Rouge Traders vs Inquisition

I am well aware of these details and to my given knowledge.
Fair enough. So often the Warhammer universe, at least the 40k one, deals so little in facts and so much more in variables. Even the facts, such as they are, tend to be contested.

There is no instance of anyone demanding anything yet but someone saying they the Inquisition has a right to anything the trader has in a legal sense.
If by legal you refer to the authority of an Inquisitor, yes. As the quote from the Eisenhorn trilogy goes, "My patience isn't unlimited, unlike my authority." (Paraphrased, but fairly consistent with the various background materials throughout the editions.

Of course, the same trilogy has examples of both reactions to Inquisitorial authority.

The trader is arguing this stating he has no right and no to push it. This trader has a large force at his beck and call and a fairly large fleet to add so they created something like a small empire for themselves from what I understand.
And the Inquisitor can technically call on even more resources. Whether they can do it in a timely fashion is one amongst many other questions that the Inquisitor would likely ask themselves before making demands for Item Y (or whatever).

This inquisitor is out gunned ship and manpower wise and has no friends to back him up. while this trader is fairly friendly with other Inquisitor and Magos from the AM and other traders.
Seems fairly clear unless the Inquisitor has something up their sleeve. Your post seems to indicate otherwise. The Lord Inquisitors in their particular sector (or whatever) might revisit his worthiness as an Inquisitor if they're posturing to someone with connections and they have no evidence, no backup, no... well, nothing really.



Remember, though, in the "grimdark future" there are always exceptions to exceptions. :D
 

Ka_ge2020

Registered User
Validated User
Re: Questioning regarding Rouge Traders vs Inquisition

Well it makes sense that in the Grim Future Where There's Only War that makeup of all forms would be banned in the Empire. Therefore even with a writ signed directly by the Emperor, the Inquisitor might be able to shut the Rouge Trader down, especially if he makes the case that this is distracting people away from Warlike pursuits. Rouge sounds suspiciously like something those not-so-manly Eldarin would use.
Alas, we know even that law is not enforced with regularity. Does not Eisenhorn regularly use a rogue trader with a penchant for the facial paints liberally daubed everywhere? ;)
 
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