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Questions about the Transhuman Engineers

AlgaeNymph

Retired User
There's a Legacy in Legacies: the Sublime called the Transhuman Engineers (p.118-127), Obromoi who promote transhumanism. I've some questions I'd like to ask the Legacy's creator directly (anyone have a contact?), but in the meantime I'm interested in everyone else's thoughts.
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Why are they an Obrimos-only Legacy? Why not include all Free Council members as well?

Why do the Guardians dislike them so much? I thought the GotV wanted to keep magic hidden.

What is V.V. working on? It's "something big" (p.120), likely affecting technology, and definitely a secret.​
 
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MutantFromMars

Retired User
There's a Legacy in Legacies: the Sublime called the Transhuman Engineers (p.118-127), Obromoi who promote transhumanism. I've some questions I'd like to ask the Legacy's creator directly (anyone have a contact?), but in the meantime I'm interested in everyone else's thoughts.
* * * *​
Why are they an Obrimos-only Legacy? Why not include all Free Council members as well?

Why do the Guardians dislike them so much? I thought the GotV wanted to keep magic hidden.

What is V.V. working on? It's "something big" (p.120), likely affecting technology, and definitely a secret.​
I'm not the creator (and don't know the author) but my own take is:

[1] Obrimos believe they hold a divine mandate and are ruled by the Arcana of Forces and Prime. Similarly, their weakest Arcanum is Death. They embody energy and see themselves as exemplars of humanity. The Transhuman Engineers take this a step further, seeking to define the ultimate shape of mankind beyond its present form.

The other paths don't so readily fit with this idea. The Acanthus can embrace new beginnings, but they're flighty and driven by fortune. The Mastigos can be disciplined, but they're bound up in the need to control, not bring change. The Moros are more concerned with endings than evolution and the Thyrsus are tied to the natural order - one the Engineers would subvert.

[2] The Guardians are worried by the fallout from the Engineers' attempts to uplift humanity. They can see this leading to an age where magic is shared freely through imbued technology and used irresponsibly - increasing paradox and widening the Abyss. In some ways, the Engineers are a nascent (and benevolent) version of the Old World of Darkness' Technocracy, but in Awakening, this path is much more dangerous to follow.

[3] V.V. (who takes his name from Vernor Vinge) could be working on anything, but think about the scientific discoveries that would need to be made in our own world to herald the age of Transhumanity - the advances that would render the standard physical form (and the death of personality) obsolete. (Have a look at the Eclipse Phase roleplaying game for inspiration!)
 
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AlgaeNymph

Retired User
The Guardians are worried by the fallout from the Engineers' attempts to uplift humanity. They can see this leading to an age where magic is shared freely through imbued technology and used irresponsibly.
I still don't see the connection between ultra-tech and magic. :confused:
Have a look at the Eclipse Phase roleplaying game for inspiration!)
I shall look again. :) I'm already familiar with the tech from Transhuman Space and IOSHI.
 

MutantFromMars

Retired User
"I still don't see the connection between ultra-tech and magic."

Thats the problem, it isn't ultra-tech - to the Engineers technology IS magic. The Engineers are pushing technology by imbuing it with magic, or by using magic to lay the foundations for a technological advance.

Have you ever read the Amber books by Roger Zelazny? Merlin, the second series' main character, is a computer scientist AND a sorcerer, and has the ability to work with both the Pattern and the Logrus. Merlin's pet project is called Ghostwheel, in many ways it is just like the Artificial Intelligences that are associated with the Singularity. Ghostwheel can't exist under Earth's normal physical laws, so Merlin builds it out in Shadow, where the laws are different.

This is what the Engineers do - they can use their magic to create prototype technological advances, and then try to inspire their favoured Sleepwalkers and Sleepers to reproduce that work under normal physical laws. They're shoving humanity to a point where they can freely mass produce magical effects as science - towards reaching the point where science exposes the workings of the Supernal and the nature of the Lie.

That's what the Guardians are afraid of.
 

Patkin

ougikawa
Validated User
More importantly, they're shoving magic in the faces of some of the worst possible people you could shove magic in front of if you wanted to keep it secret. I think basically the only thing worse than it could be revealing magic to the UN Security Council, the U.S. Congress or the UK Parliament.

That's not keeping magic hidden. That's whipping it out in the park and waving it at passerby, shouting "check this shit out!". And the Guardians are, as a rule, unhappy with flashers no matter how they dress up Mr. Pokeywhistle.
 

Patkin

ougikawa
Validated User
I'd also posit that the reason the Transhuman Engineers are primarily Obrimos is because the type of transhumanist thought they advocate is basically, well, blind uncompromising faith in a higher power. Progress is their god, and technology is what they will build its church from.
 

Matt Sheridan

Minus 10 horse points.
Validated User
Really, there's no objective reason to classify magic and technology as different things. Everything real falls under the domain of science. And using science to get shit done is technology. If magic works, it is--by definition--a technology.
 
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