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[Savage Worlds + Cortex Prime] Savage Cortex?

Malckuss

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I'm admittedly more versed with the Cortex+ Action version of Firefly than Cortex Prime, but one way I can see using miniatures on a tabletop or map is to equate distance and ranges to dice types. For example, if you're concerned with how far a character can move on the tabletop per beat, you could base that on their Phsyical Attribute dice type. So for something that's like the character movement rates commonly found in an rpg like D&D, you could use:

d6 Physical dice = 20' walking, 10' climbing & swimming per beat.
d8 Physical dice = 30' walking, 15' climbing & swimming per beat.
d10 Physical dice = 40' walking, 20' climbing & swimming per beat.

For weapon ranges in combat encounters, you could come up with workable range bands for your setting and then align them to difficulty dice. So as an example, when a character takes a shot by rolling a dice pool with the Shoot skill dice included, the opposing roll could use these as one of the dice in the opposing pool;

Target character in close/point blank range includes a d4 (very easy) in their opposing dice pool.
Target character in short range includes a d6 (easy) dice.
Target character in medium range includes a d8 (challenging) dice.
Target character at long range includes a d10 (Hard) dice.
Target characer at extreme range includes a d12 (Really Hard) dice.

You could have less range bands than that - I only included that many to show the breadth of possilities. Coming up with doable range bands could be done quite easily by just averaging what's listed for weapons in one of the more tabletop friendly RPGs, like SWD. If you represent higher quality or named weapons as signature assets, better ranges can be reflected by stepping up that assets dice type. And of course those assets could have triggers, that might even improve upon that.

I think if you keep to the same principle -bigger dice means a better rate or distance for the initating character on the tabletop, while a bigger dice is a less favorable rate or distance for them when used in an opposing pool- you could handle just about anything you'd need to run miniatures on a tabletop. Just my 2 cents, but IMO because the RPG represents a sort of scaling via increasing dice type, it's very flexible and not that difficult to be adapted or customized in all sorts of new ways; especially if you want to houserule around distances and movement rates.
Sorry, kronovan. I didn't mean to ignore you; I think you posted while I was composing my previous post.

I think I am going to simply port in Savage Worlds Miniature rules and apply the closest Cortex analogs to them that I can, as 1) Savage Worlds table-top rules are clean and simple and 2) I want the game to be recognizable for other fans of the system. I can't be the only one who likes them both. I want to keep the fast, furious fun.

Heavy/MDC Weapons is just an 'ON/OFF' switch, if they have it they can damage something with Heavy/MDC Armor, without it they can't. That is all it does, it doesn't ignore normal armor or anything else, it just allows you to affect H/MDC Armor. It's on p10 of the Rifts PG and p48 & 58 of the SWD.
Thank you for this information, j0rdi.

To sum, in effect, I cannot find it because shooting someone with a tank's main gun is almost the same as shooting them with a pistol? Um...No. I do see the rules for most vehicle weapons have more damage and armor penetration, but...I do not like that. It doesn't feel like Mega Damage to me. Maybe I should have Mega Damage attacks in my Savage Rifts game automatically get a raise if they hit a target not possessing the MDC tag. This is making the Scale die in Cortex all the more appealing.

I have had some additional musings regarding Arcane Backgrounds. I think I am going to have Arcane Backgrounds supply a die, between d6-12 as an arcane skill for the respective Background Edge. This will net a pool of dice, similar to Hero Dice, for possessors of this Arcane Background called a Power Pool. I am thinking you either have access to Hero dice or to a Power pool, but you cannot possess both; essentially taking an Arcane Background replaces your Hero dice. Instead of Powers, you gain Power Tags and SFX that you can apply to a die pool you use your Arcane skill with, and you must spend a Power die to activate it, and you get to add that die to the pool. This needs more work, obviously.
 
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Malckuss

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When I was looking for an alternative to Savage Worlds, the combat was definitely one of the biggest hurdles I faced - I needed a system that could handle combat with dozens of individual characters, like a skirmish-level wargame.

Such combat encounters work well in Savage Worlds because Extras only roll a single trait die (meaning I can roll attacks for several NPCs simultaneously, like a dice pool), and they don't have hit points or wounds, so there's no bookkeeping; the mini can simply be placed on its side to indicate Shaken status.
Apologies for the double post. I think I am going to use a fixed value plus the roll of one die to speed things up in Savage Cortex. The minor GMC rules in Cortex Prime works very similarly to what you describe as they only get one die.
 
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Zadmar

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Apologies for the double post. I think I am going to use a fixed value plus the roll of one die to speed things up in Savage Cortex. The minor GMC rules in Cortex Prime works very similarly to what you describe as they only get one die.
To be honest I only having a passing familiarity with Cortex Plus (it was one of the systems I considered when I was looking for alternatives to Savage Worlds, and I'm not sure how it differs from Prime). However I'd be curious to hear how your idea works out, perhaps I shouldn't have dismissed Cortex so quickly.
 

Malckuss

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To be honest I only having a passing familiarity with Cortex Plus (it was one of the systems I considered when I was looking for alternatives to Savage Worlds, and I'm not sure how it differs from Prime). However I'd be curious to hear how your idea works out, perhaps I shouldn't have dismissed Cortex so quickly.
Cortex, especially the way Prime is shaping up, is more of a toolkit you tailor to the style, tone, and 'feel' you want out of your game. What sort of game are you looking to run? I'm not Cam, but I have done many a hack with Cortex and I would happily let the thread drift a bit to help out a fellow dice chucker.
 
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Zadmar

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Cortex, especially the way Prime is shaping up, is more of a toolkit you tailor to the style, tone, and 'feel' you want out of your game. What sort of game are you looking to run? I'm not Cam, but I have done many a hack with Cortex and I would happily let the thread drift a bit to help out a fellow dice chucker.
It was actually the goblin setting in my signature - each PC controls a goblinoid boss and several gang members, so combat encounters often involve 20-30 characters on each side, and are resolved on a battlemap using minis (like a skirmish wargame). But outside of combat I tend to use abstract narrative-driven mechanics like Dramatic Tasks, Social Conflicts, Interludes, etc.
 

Malckuss

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It was actually the goblin setting in my signature - each PC controls a goblinoid boss and several gang members, so combat encounters often involve 20-30 characters on each side, and are resolved on a battlemap using minis (like a skirmish wargame). But outside of combat I tend to use abstract narrative-driven mechanics like Dramatic Tasks, Social Conflicts, Interludes, etc.
Ok. After looking at your link, I think if I was doing this in Cortex Prime, I would model it thusly, based on my first impressions:

Goblin Bosses are built as full characters. Prime Trait Sets are Savage World Attributes with either Savage Worlds Skills or Cortex Skills (user preference) for granularity and ease of use/porting. Distinctions as usual, for flavor and personalization. This has each boss rolling approximately 3-4 dice on average and taking their two best for their result.

I would use Signature Assets to represent each minion. As Signature Assets, each minion will start as a d6 and can be stepped up to bigger dice later. Additionally, each minion is eligible for SFX that can specialize their capabilities, and can be rolled as a group, all adding to a task or used individually. The wording for each asset also ascribes a role and personality to each minion, beyond the mechanics of SFX. A Goblin boss commanding a minion will add a die to their pool for each minion assigned to the task and still taking only the two best results, but having a greater selection.

Since Goblin bosses will only make one roll each combat round, each roll could include no minions (0 extra dice), one minion (1 extra die), or several minions (1 die for each minion); essentially they act as commanders. Acting in this role, as a variant rule, I would use Hero dice for the Goblin Commanders. If they want a minion to take an action on their own, spend a Hero die (I would rename them Command dice) before the roll and add that die to the minion's die and roll that as the minion's pool for that action, rolling and summing two dice, with a default d4 effect die (or simply use the minion's highest rolling die as a substitute).

As for the rest, Cortex excels at drama and narrative situations. As for the miniatures stuff, I guess watch this thread, 'cause I promised someone a module for that.

Quick note: I would try to break the opposition up into commanders and their minions, or at least 5-"man" teams to make rolling and tracking easier, so you are not rolling more than 5-7 dice. As each team is winnowed, you are also rolling less dice.
 
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Zadmar

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Ok. After looking at your link, I think if I was doing this in Cortex Prime, I would model it thusly, based on my first impressions:
Thanks for the suggestions, I'm not too familiar with the Cortex terminology, but it's good to know it can be done. Combat with minis is pretty important to me though, so I'll definitely keep an eye on the thread!
 

Malckuss

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Validated User
Thanks for the suggestions, I'm not too familiar with the Cortex terminology, but it's good to know it can be done. Combat with minis is pretty important to me though, so I'll definitely keep an eye on the thread!
Feel free to PM me with any questions, if you are still interested. I'll do my best to extrapolate.
 

kronovan

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Sorry, kronovan. I didn't mean to ignore you; I think you posted while I was composing my previous post.

I think I am going to simply port in Savage Worlds Miniature rules and apply the closest Cortex analogs to them that I can, as 1) Savage Worlds table-top rules are clean and simple and 2) I want the game to be recognizable for other fans of the system. I can't be the only one who likes them both. I want to keep the fast, furious fun.
No need to apologize - I didn't feel left out. ;) In my post I was just simply putting out a suggestion. Having been one of the setting writers for Interface Zero 2.0, I'll qualify myself as a big fan of SWD. There's a number of genres I'd still choose SWD over Cortex Prime, like anything Weird Wars and any Historical Fantasy set in a warring time period. As well, I'd of course still run cyberpunk with SWD, despite having helped my son cobble together a cyberpunk hack -via distinctions and signature assets- for his Firefly campaign. ;)

I could see where some of the SWD play mechanics could be adapted in. I think trying to implement something like static Target Numbers for ranged combat though, could be problematic. Characters and some levels of GMC's keep the best 2 results from their dice pools, but Extra GMCs (talking Cortex+ Action here) only roll 1 dice, so a fixed TN could be tricky. A TN of 9 (average result of the 2 medium dice types, 2d8) could work when combat involved PC and major GMC's, but would break down if an Extra had to roll against it. That was why I was thinking range bands that are reflected in escalating dice types in the opposing dice pool, might work better. Otherwise, parry for melee combat is easily adapted, as that SWD stat is derived from dice types anyways.
 
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