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Sell/Unsell me on Dungeon Crawl Classics...

jcfiala

Code Monkey
Validated User
My problem with the cleric has been that I'm afraid to cast any spells because I can't take the chance of ramping up disapproval and later needing to heal. It means I mostly melee attack and heal bot. Oh other than detect evil, which is farcically OP in a dungeon crawl and is constantly up.
Ramping up disapproval isn't bad. Go for it! I honestly haven't rolled disapproval range very often, and most of the time it's been a minor result, like praying to my god for 10 minutes after the fight's over. Failing can create interesting moments in the game just like succeeding does.
 

wheloc

He's trying real hard to be one of the good guys.
RPGnet Member
Validated User
The one time I ran DCC myself, we ended up with a cleric with only 10 PER. In three sessions, he never successfully cast a spell. Eventually he stopped trying, decided his character was useless, and started to run or hide from every encounter.

...but that's not really my complaint (that's just bad luck coupled with a group unfamiliar with the system, and maybe some poor sportmanship). My complaint is that "Patron Bonds" get a lot of love, both in the core book at third-party material. Many choices, and interesting results falling out from those choices.

Deities should've/could've been equally interesting, but they're not.
 

Knight of Ravens

Registered User
Validated User
I'll echo the sentiment that it would have been really nice for cleric deities to get as much attention as wizard patrons; as it is, there's a bit of a feeling that wizards are a massively-differentiated group while clerics are largely interchangeable within their alignment.

There's one result on the deity disapproval table - "Test of Humility," or the like? - that I found got old very quickly, because it compels deference to other characters, and it felt like the consequence of failing to cast a spell and suffering disapproval was a mechanically-reinforced instruction to shut up and be everyone else's healbot.
 

Chris J

Registered User
Validated User
As a part of the 'Unsell' bit:

There is no reason to play a dwarf over a human fighter other than the dwarf can smell gold. Human fighters are more competent in almost every department (if not ever department).
 
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A2A

Proud Member of the Fuzz
Validated User
Deities should've/could've been equally interesting, but they're not.
The recently Kickstarted DCC Annual fixes this by providing a selection of fleshed out deities with their own cleric powers/spells, disapproval tables, etc. It would have been nice if they'd at least put a couple in the core books as examples for tweaking the cleric though.
 

jcfiala

Code Monkey
Validated User
The one time I ran DCC myself, we ended up with a cleric with only 10 PER. In three sessions, he never successfully cast a spell. Eventually he stopped trying, decided his character was useless, and started to run or hide from every encounter.
As a first level Cleric with a Personality of 10, he would be rolling 1d20+1 vs a minimum target number of 12... Which means 11+. I suppose it's possible to never roll higher than 10 across that many rolls, but at some point it's time to wonder if the die is crooked. My cleric's personality bonus is just +1, and I have had much less trouble.

Heck, I my fighter had no bonuses at all, and survived to retire at 6th level.
 

Reverend Keith

I was a friend of Jamis
RPGnet Member
Validated User
... rules like rolling over the body also help with survival.
Truer words have never been spoken. Thanks to the roll the body over rule I find that the higher the level, the greater the chance of PCs surviving. Low levels go into a meatgrinder. Higher level PCs are the meatgrinders for everything else.
 

jcfiala

Code Monkey
Validated User
As a first level Cleric with a Personality of 10, he would be rolling 1d20+1 vs a minimum target number of 12... Which means 11+. I suppose it's possible to never roll higher than 10 across that many rolls, but at some point it's time to wonder if the die is crooked. My cleric's personality bonus is just +1, and I have had much less trouble.

Heck, I my fighter had no bonuses at all, and survived to retire at 6th level.
And, thinking over things, this doesn't even include the use of luck. A near-miss on the die can be a success with either a point or two of the Cleric's luck, or wheedling the party Halfling into lending a point of their luck over. Now, that's not always obvious for new players - the first time I played DCC (as a theif) the DM hadn't told us how luck works or how Thief abilities work, so I died to a trap that I could have avoided with a little luck spending. As with other games, a little experience playing the game can be helpful.
 

Reverend Keith

I was a friend of Jamis
RPGnet Member
Validated User
The only sticking point for players is probably spells are gonna be a bit different than normal D&D-style RPGs, but it's not that hard to wrap your head around - just print out the page for your spells and make a literal spellbook lol
I wish the spells and associates charts were a little more printer friendly (such as not starting halfway on a page), but other than that minor quibble my players actually really like that aspect of the game. The wizard player has his 'spellbook' and we don't have to waste time passing around and looking stuff up in the rulebook. DCC really leans into the random results and my players love that as they celebrate how bad ass they are every time they roll high, and blame the dice every time they roll low. :)
 

jcfiala

Code Monkey
Validated User
I wish the spells and associates charts were a little more printer friendly (such as not starting halfway on a page), but other than that minor quibble my players actually really like that aspect of the game. The wizard player has his 'spellbook' and we don't have to waste time passing around and looking stuff up in the rulebook. DCC really leans into the random results and my players love that as they celebrate how bad ass they are every time they roll high, and blame the dice every time they roll low. :)
Well, if you use the purple sorcerer website, you can print out just the spells that you use.
 
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