So Golarion seems kinda racist

[Ettin]

So I have been flipping through some Golarion books lately and boy, do a lot of these races seem like walking stereotypes.

• The Tian are all about honor and their ancestors, have a "Tea Culture", wear kimonos and are basically an idealised Japan without the rampant xenophobia

• "The people of Tian Xia keep to themselves, for the most part. They are quiet and polite, and become increasingly so the angrier they get. A Tian who lapses into complete silence is probably very angry, and it's best to appease him quickly. An apology goes a long way toward reconciliation. Sit down a Tian and put a little alcohol in him, though, and you quickly learn that just because he's reserved doesn't mean he doesn't know how to have fun."

• The totally-not-Africa group is portrayed by a shirtless black dude with tribal tattoos and some kind of spear, they live in the jungle, some of them try really hard to be like the white man but still dress like their ancestors while denying any connection to them, most of them are basically noble savage tribal dudes

• There are totally-not-Gypsies who steal from anybody not of their kind, can't be trusted, are totally con artists but are sensual and might be magic

etc etc.

A friend of mine calls Golarion "Your Racist Grandpa: The Setting", and I like Golarion, but if man I could do with less lazy stereotyping.

 

[AilphanG]

I haven't looked at Golarion, but given that I frequently see it recommended because of its African area and general diversity, I've got to say that I foresee this thread becoming a nuclear fireball within fifty posts.

...

I guess the other way to phrase my post is "I am interested in seeing how this thread develops, because I have often heard Golarion recommended precisely because of the African cultures within it."

 

[awesomeocalypse]

it isn't quite Werewolf the Apocalypse levels of racist, but yes, it does tend to traffic in some problematic stereotypes.

 

[nightwyrm]

Their Ultimate Combat could've been renamed Ultimate Asian (with guns) as well.

But then, is there any RPG setting which doesn't use hollywood stereotypes for their real-world culture counterparts?

 

[Vault Dweller]

For what it's worth, the stereotyping in Golarion seems to be of the positive variety (which I realize can still be problematic, having frequently had Chinese-Australian friends venting about "the racism of excessive positive stereotyping" which was a welcome eye-opener).

 

[John W Mangrum]

In the cases you mention of the Tians and Mwangi, note that the stereotyping you mention is actual in-setting stereotyping. The same descriptions you reference mention that, in the case of the Tian in particular, what the people of Avistan consider "Tian" culture is actually comprised of half-a-dozen distinct cultures (ditto the Mwangi). The heavy Japan flavoring is due to the fact that many of the Tian in the Inner Sea region actually come from (or are descended from emigrants of) Golarion's Japan-analogue. The sourcebooks that actually focus on the homelands of the Tian and Mwangi add a great deal of detail and differentiation. In Tian-Xia, meanwhile (the Asia analogue), it seems that the widely varying peoples there similarly tend to lump all Avistan folk together under the "Taldan" catch-all.

As for the Varisians, yes, there's a specific group/society of "nefarious gypsies." But since Varisians form the majority population of the focus point of the Inner Sea setting (Varisia), in practice you actually see Varisians in all manner of roles and characterizations, most of which have little bearing on "gypsy" stereotypes.

 

[Runeblade]

Golarion is a fantasy analog of historical Earth and classic fantasy cultures as they have been depicted and romanticized for decades in fantasy stories and myths from around the world. Mwangi is SUPPOSED to be a fantasy analog of a Africa. That's the POINT. Tian is supposed to be a fantasy analog of Asian cultures like Japan and China. Again, that's the POINT.

There are settings that are completely original and divorced from our world. Tekumel is one of them, IRC. I also have no interest in playing in a such a world. If I want to play a fantasy ninja, then I want a Japan inspired Asian fantasy analog culture for my PC to come from. If I want to play a fantasy shaman inspired by African culture, then I want an African inspired fantasy culture for him to come from. Golarion provides that. There is nothing racist about it.

I'm certainly no Paizo apologist, but the entire premise of this post seems utterly idiotic and asinine to me.

 

[AilphanG]

That's the POINT.

...For someone so keen on points, you seem to have missed one.

(Specifically, that the stereotypes in the OP are offensive stereotypes, like "thieving clannish gypsies".)

 

[Topher]

I'm certainly no Paizo apologist, but the entire premise of this post seems utterly idiotic and asinine to me.

You don't register the difference between "Fantasy Africa" and "Racist Stereotype of Fantasy Africa"?

Topher

 

[tablehop]

Yo Runeblade, there's nothing wrong with being inspired by a real world culture and there's absolutely everything wrong with basing that culture entirely on racist stereotypes.