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So Golarion seems kinda racist

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Gristmill

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I don't know about you, but I prefer my fantasies not include things which are completely horrible and needless. If you truly feel the need to play a sociopathic murderhobo, more power to you, I guess. Why do you want to be called 'good' while doing so, though? Why not just accept that you're playing a sociopathic killer?
I think the issue is that you're looking at a perspective where it wouldn't make sense in real life, even though it could make perfect sense of the settings' sense of morality or the setting itself. Suspension of disbelief and all, too. Sometimes people just want to play a "kill the BBEG, save the monarch/kingdom" and not deal with moral dilemmas. Something simple and straightforward.
 

MorsRattus

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I think the issue is that you're looking at a perspective where it wouldn't make sense in real life, even though it could make perfect sense of the settings' sense of morality or the setting itself. Suspension of disbelief and all, too. Sometimes people just want to play a "kill the BBEG, save the monarch/kingdom" and not deal with moral dilemmas. Something simple and straightforward.
I'd go back and read Awesomeocalypse's posts again - he doesn't want even that level of justification.
 

Spider Proletariat

Fascism At It's Basest
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This discussion is reminding me of this absolutely wonderful WIR of the Keep on the Borderlands, where the guy points out that most of the chaotic creatures are guilty of the heinous crime of 'keeping to themselves and not bothering anyone unless their lair gets invaded'.
 

junglefowl26

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I don't know about you, but I prefer my fantasies not include things which are completely horrible and needless. If you truly feel the need to play a sociopathic murderhobo, more power to you, I guess. Why do you want to be called 'good' while doing so, though? Why not just accept that you're playing a sociopathic killer?
I have always wondered about that myself. I mean, it isn't like most games explicitly forbid evil characters, and even if they didn't, how can they support that.

I don't really understand how making different races objectively evil chances that. An evil action done to an evil person is still evil after all, doubly so in something like DnD where there is an objective good and evil...especially since good is defined, in the DnD books, as being based on compassion for all life above all else.

If evil creatures are somehow exempted from that, and good and evil creatures don't treat each other any differently, then Good and Evil become too equally evil sides ina war instead of, you know, good and evil.

To go back to the portrayal of non-Western human cultures in fantasy, I think I found some good reads on the topic:
http://pdjeliclark.wordpress.com/2012/05/17/spears-sorcery-and-double-consciousness-part-i/
http://pdjeliclark.wordpress.com/2012/05/18/spears-sorcery-and-double-consciousness-part-ii/#more-450
http://pdjeliclark.wordpress.com/2012/05/20/spears-sorcery-and-double-consciousness-part-iii/#more-485
http://silver-goggles.blogspot.com/2012/04/transcript-pangolin-bear-just-bear.html
 

awesomeocalypse

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I don't know about you, but I prefer my fantasies not include things which are completely horrible and needless. If you truly feel the need to play a sociopathic murderhobo, more power to you, I guess. Why do you want to be called 'good' while doing so, though? Why not just accept that you're playing a sociopathic killer?
how is a scenario in which my character can do whatever he feels, and is lauded as hero for it, in any way horrible?
Point one--I want to be able to act on murderous/larcenous desires with impunity
Point two--I want to be regarded as hero, not in a "the foolish and/or evil society is fooled into thinking you're heroic" way, but in an objective, "you get into D&D heaven no questions asked, any Paladin would be happy to have his daughter marry you" sense

These are not compatible desires in any real world scenario, obviously...but why shouldn't one invent a fictional scenario in which they are? The entire point of the game is escapist power fantasy, letting the players occupy the roles they desire. Why should "indiscriminate dungeon crawler who is also objectively good" be verboten?
 

MorsRattus

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If you want to play that way, well, I guess it doesn't hurt me.

I find sociopathic murderhobos to be horrible people and find any fantasy world in which they are not horrible people to be so far from reality as to be utterly unrelatable and alien.
 

junglefowl26

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Personally, my escapist fantasy is to stab such people repeatedly.

It is why the Thalmor make such great villains.
 

Wields-Rulebook-Heavily

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how is a scenario in which my character can do whatever he feels, and is lauded as hero for it, in any way horrible?
Point one--I want to be able to act on murderous/larcenous desires with impunity
Point two--I want to be regarded as hero, not in a "the foolish and/or evil society is fooled into thinking you're heroic" way, but in an objective, "you get into D&D heaven no questions asked, any Paladin would be happy to have his daughter marry you" sense

These are not compatible desires in any real world scenario, obviously...but why shouldn't one invent a fictional scenario in which they are? The entire point of the game is escapist power fantasy, letting the players occupy the roles they desire. Why should "indiscriminate dungeon crawler who is also objectively good" be verboten?
This is sociopathy.
 
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