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So it’s official, SLA Industries v2 is coming

Shep

Registered User
Validated User
Kinghuge is correct! I stand corrected. That stuff was at the back of the 1st Ed book. For some reason I thought that was an inclusion only in the Hogshead reprint, but having just checked first printing, it’s there as well.

Needless to say, this is well revised for 2nd Ed.
 

HidaO-Win

Hida Without Fear
Validated User
Few rules clarifications.
It mentions you can’t fire ranged weapons in melee, except for the round you are engaged, representing a final shot being taken. Does this mean if you are engaged and haven’t acted yet you can make one ranged attack on that turn and then you are stuck in melee combat.

Secondly it mentions saving melee skill ranks to defend with. But also says if you didn’t save any, you can still defend but the penalty applies to next turn. So lets say I have 4 melee skill, I attack on my turn and choose to save 2 melee skill to defend with. Then when I am attacked in melee on my turn which of the following are true. (Page 12)

A) I defend for 2 and have no penalty next turn
B) I defend for 2 and have a 2 skill penalty next turn.

Also, if A is true, can I also choose to spend the skill from next turn?
C) I defend for 2, then spend an additional 2 skill for a total defense of 4 and a 2 skill penalty next turn.
D) I defend for 2, then spend an additional 4 skill for a total defense of 6 and a 4 skill penalty next turn.
E) You can’t double dip at all.
 

Shep

Registered User
Validated User
Few rules clarifications.
It mentions you can’t fire ranged weapons in melee, except for the round you are engaged, representing a final shot being taken. Does this mean if you are engaged and haven’t acted yet you can make one ranged attack on that turn and then you are stuck in melee combat.
Yes, assuming you declared a ranged attack at the start of the combat round. You can't change your declared action to a ranged attack (I don't think you were asking that, but thought I'd clarify based on your wording).

Secondly it mentions saving melee skill ranks to defend with. But also says if you didn’t save any, you can still defend but the penalty applies to next turn. So lets say I have 4 melee skill, I attack on my turn and choose to save 2 melee skill to defend with. Then when I am attacked in melee on my turn which of the following are true. (Page 12)

A) I defend for 2 and have no penalty next turn
B) I defend for 2 and have a 2 skill penalty next turn.

Also, if A is true, can I also choose to spend the skill from next turn?
C) I defend for 2, then spend an additional 2 skill for a total defense of 4 and a 2 skill penalty next turn.
D) I defend for 2, then spend an additional 4 skill for a total defense of 6 and a 4 skill penalty next turn.
E) You can’t double dip at all.
Statement A is correct. You chose to use 2 ranks and save 2 ranks for the defence. You can't spend from next turn if you have ranks left from this turn, so E.

Worth also clarifying that you can't 'borrow' ranks from the next round to attack with - so if you use your ranks to defend then act later, you will have none left to attack with. Also, in the full rules there is an additional clarification to prevent a constant chaining of combat defence (constantly using 2 ranks and borrowing two ranks turn after turn).
 

EventHorizon

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Validated User
Yes, assuming you declared a ranged attack at the start of the combat round. You can't change your declared action to a ranged attack (I don't think you were asking that, but thought I'd clarify based on your wording).
Unfortunately, this doesn't make much sense to me. Rules say you can't fire if engaged in close combat, right? Rules also say that your declared action can become invalidated based on other actor's actions, right? In that case, why should there be a special exception for ranged fire arms for the first turn you're engaged in close combat? Seems like the cleaner and more sensible thing is that your declared action has become invalidated. The alternative idea, "everything is happening at once, so they'd get a shot," kinda invalidates most of the other stuff - other moves shouldn't be invalidated in that case, they probably just should receive a penalty.
 
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WordForge

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Unfortunately, this doesn't make much sense to me. Rules say you can't fire if engaged in close combat, right? Rules also say that your declared action can become invalidated based on other actor's actions, right? In that case, why should there be a special exception for ranged fire arms for the first turn you're engaged in close combat? Seems like the cleaner and more sensible thing is that your declared action has become invalidated. The alternative idea, "everything is happening at once, so they'd get a shot," kinda invalidates most of the other stuff - other moves shouldn't be invalidated in that case, they probably just should receive a penalty.
Because you expect to be out of CC by the time it gets to your action.
 

EventHorizon

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Because you expect to be out of CC by the time it gets to your action.
Why would you expect to be out of CC by the time it gets to your action?

DECLARATION:
Ranged Guy (init 2) -- "I'm gonna shoot"
Melee Guy (int 4) -- "I'm gonna stab"

ACTIONS:
Melee Guy -- "I close on Ranged Guy and stab him"
Ranged Guy -- "I'm in close combat now! My action should be voiced because I cannot do ranged combat when engaged in close combat!"
 
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WordForge

Registered User
Validated User
Why would you expect to be out of CC by the time it gets to your action?

DECLARATION:
Ranged Guy (init 2) -- "I'm gonna shoot"
Melee Guy (int 4) -- "I'm gonna stab"

ACTIONS:
Melee Guy -- "I close on Ranged Guy and stab him"
Ranged Guy -- "I'm in close combat now! My action should be voiced because I cannot do ranged combat when engaged in close combat!"

Two ops in cc with one weak or beat up enemy. The one with lower I expects his colleague to deal with that threat, so rather than declare a pointless Melee action he declares a ranged at another target. It happened quite a few times for us against DN in the QS
 

EventHorizon

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Two ops in cc with one weak or beat up enemy. The one with lower I expects his colleague to deal with that threat, so rather than declare a pointless Melee action he declares a ranged at another target. It happened quite a few times for us against DN in the QS
I think we're talking past each other, maybe? There are two situations here:

(1) I have declared a Ranged Attack, and someone moves in and hits me in melee before my turn, thereby putting me in close combat
(2) I am in close combat with an enemy, and I am assuming that someone will kill my opponent before my turn

#2 is what you're suggesting, I believe. I think #2 is a STRONG "you cannot use Ranged Combat". You are IN close combat when declaring actions, and you cannot perform ranged combat when in close combat. I don't think it's reasonable to declare your action under the HOPE that someone else will kill the thing, thereby freeing you for ranged combat. I'd argue very strongly that your initial action must be valid - declaring ranged while in close is not valid.

#1 is what I'm suggesting. And I've already covered my opinion there - once someone closes into close combat with you, and it becomes your turn, a declared ranged attack should become invalid because you are now in close combat.
 
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Shep

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There are indeed two situations at hand here.

Situation 1, getting a final shot off (if that’s what you declared) on the turn you are engaged. This is correct. It is not a failed action. Sorry you don’t like that ruling. I think it works great in the flow of the game.
It should probably note that if you want to you can let the action fail, thus giving you an auxillery action and the chance to swap to a melee weapon/sling your rifle, so you can better attack and defend in the oncoming CC.

Situation 2, that Mark suggests, where a combatant wants to declare a ranged attack as they think an opponent that they are engaged with might be dead this round. This can’t happen. You are engaged so cannot declare a ranged attack. That combatant could declare an auxiliary action and swap to a ranged weapon in prep for the next combat round, or declare a melee attack, which will fail if the target is dead, thus becoming an Auxiliary action to swap weapons. Basically they can preempt the outcome by getting ready to shoot next round, but there’s no way they can shoot this round.
 
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