• The Infractions Forum is available for public view. Please note that if you have been suspended you will need to open a private/incognito browser window to view it.

[Spoilers] X-Men: Dark Phoenix

Strange Visitor

Grumpy Grognard
Validated User
This may be straying into head canon, but the ending of the film felt a lot less tragic than the comics version.

The original storyline was really pure tragedy - Jean realized she was unable to control the Phoenix Force and killed herself to prevent a repeat of the destruction that she’d caused under its influence. (Of course, that was retconned considerably six years later.)

In the movie, Jean sacrificed herself to destroy Vuk and save the world... but I don’t think that she actually died. Instead, she successfully controlled the alien force, merging with to create a new entity. That moment was essentially the fulfillment of both “My emotions make me strong” and Charles telling her, “You can do anything you set your mind to.” Jean’s humanity tempered the power of the alien force and changed it into something that was no longer purely destructive.

I believe that’s symbolized by the hybrid entity assuming the form of the Phoenix, something the alien force had never done prior to that point in the film. Jean’s closing narration seemed to support that as well.
If that's headcanon, I think its pretty damn close to the strong implication of what's shown on the screen. Jean didn't die. She transcended. And if we're to take the little bit of Easter Egg right at the end, still keeps enough of herself to be interested in her homeworld.
 

Kurt McMahon

Academic Ninja
RPGnet Member
Validated User
If that's headcanon, I think its pretty damn close to the strong implication of what's shown on the screen. Jean didn't die. She transcended. And if we're to take the little bit of Easter Egg right at the end, still keeps enough of herself to be interested in her homeworld.
Exactly. For me, the feel was far more reminiscent of the endings of Ghost in the Shell or Star Trek: The Motion Picture than that of the comics version of the storyline or X-Men: The Last Stand.
 

wheloc

He's trying real hard to be one of the good guys.
RPGnet Member
Validated User
I don't know that I think the ending is dependent on Charles at all, and the "my emotions make me strong" seems pretty clear.
Sure, Jean's emotions made her strong, but through most of the Dark Phoenix film (and in many of the comics and other material) that strength was portrayed as something to be legitimately feared. From scaring her father, attacking the police/military, lashing out against her friends, killing Mystique, and sadistically torturing Charles, she seemed well on the path to needing to make a heroic sacrifice to be redeemed.

Maybe I'm attributing too much weight to Charles's pep talk, but I'm not sure what else would have caused her to suddenly gain control of her powers and decide not to be evil.

Comparatively, in Captain Marvel:
Spoiler: Show
The Kree keep telling Carol she needs to control her emotions, but they're shown to be objectively wrong: Carol has always had full control over her powers and the Kree were only holding her back.
 

Coyote's Own

Former ACME QA Tester.
RPGnet Member
Validated User
Comparatively, in Captain Marvel:
Spoiler: Show
The Kree keep telling Carol she needs to control her emotions, but they're shown to be objectively wrong: Carol has always had full control over her powers and the Kree were only holding her back.
RE Captain Marvel
Spoiler: Show

I do like the bit in this weeks Honest Trailer, where cross cut peopel telling Carol she needs to control her emotions with Carol being pretty much subdued all the time
 

Fabius Maximus

Registered User
Validated User
I've heard a lot of people comparing the film to Endgame, unfavorably. Which is unfair, in that the whole MCU hs been the kind of cinematic triumph that has almost defined a moviegoing generation. It's like saying: well, compared to Star Wars...

That being said, I think a big problem is that the X-men franchise has been all over the place in terms of relationships, and a big part of the Dark Phoenix saga was the toll it took on this family of heroes. If you can't sell that, and sell it well to the audience, you may have a problem.
 

Strange Visitor

Grumpy Grognard
Validated User
Sure, Jean's emotions made her strong, but through most of the Dark Phoenix film (and in many of the comics and other material) that strength was portrayed as something to be legitimately feared. From scaring her father, attacking the police/military, lashing out against her friends, killing Mystique, and sadistically torturing Charles, she seemed well on the path to needing to make a heroic sacrifice to be redeemed.

Maybe I'm attributing too much weight to Charles's pep talk, but I'm not sure what else would have caused her to suddenly gain control of her powers and decide not to be evil.
I don't think it was the pep talk; it was simply her realizing that, even though he'd screwed up amidst a set of bad choices, Charles had never seen her as a puppet, but as someone who had a lot of potential that deserved to reach that potential. Its the exact opposite of the Captain Marvel situation where Yon-Rogg clearly considered CM just a reflection of him. They only superficially seem similar.

The issue that differs the two is that when Charles takes Jean in hand she's a child. A superpowered child. Anyone want to raise their hand that thinks that a child with superpowers, ones easily used on instantaneous impulse doesn't need someone who can control them and teach them self control?

This doesn't mean he went about it the best way ever, but he wasn't, in the end, doing anything most every parent does with their children regularly; teaching them how to interact with the world without harming themself or others.

What was important was that he didn't think she was a monster even though one of those impulses had killed her mother--but her father did, and he thought her knowing that would end up breaking her.

But in the end of the day, it was never about Charles, much as Magnus wanted to push that on him; the worst he can be accused of is assuming his decision here was the right one and shying away from ever returning to her and telling her what he'd done.
 

Strange Visitor

Grumpy Grognard
Validated User
I've heard a lot of people comparing the film to Endgame, unfavorably. Which is unfair, in that the whole MCU hs been the kind of cinematic triumph that has almost defined a moviegoing generation. It's like saying: well, compared to Star Wars...

That being said, I think a big problem is that the X-men franchise has been all over the place in terms of relationships, and a big part of the Dark Phoenix saga was the toll it took on this family of heroes. If you can't sell that, and sell it well to the audience, you may have a problem.
That's partly a problem with the time gap; as noted, a number of the relationships are informed attributes. In addition, some of the newer characters have never had prior history for us to see. As such, a lot of the heavy lifting isn't done by people who are supposed to be particularly close to Jean like Scott and Ororo; instead they're held up by older characters who well pre-date her in the reboot franchise like Charles, Magnus and Hank (not helped by the fact their three actors are stronger than the ones playing the newer characters, other than Sophie; I don't think Alexandra Shipp and Tye Sheridan were bad, but I think they needed a little more time in the roles to entirely peg them down).
 

Daz Florp Lebam

Registered User
Validated User
On the plus side, Hans Zimmer's score was strong, as usual. I didn't really notice it until the credits, during which of course various themes were revisited, and I suddenly realized how much his score had helped carry things.
 

SorcererNinja

Ace Valkryie Pilot
RPGnet Member
Validated User
On the plus side, Hans Zimmer's score was strong, as usual. I didn't really notice it until the credits, during which of course various themes were revisited, and I suddenly realized how much his score had helped carry things.
The X-Men soundtracks are definitely up there on the list of soundtracks I need to get.
 

Susanoo Orbatos

Social Justice Huckster
Validated User
I've heard a lot of people comparing the film to Endgame, unfavorably. Which is unfair, in that the whole MCU hs been the kind of cinematic triumph that has almost defined a moviegoing generation. It's like saying: well, compared to Star Wars...
I think its a fair comparison because its like those many Star wars knock offs in the 80s that tried to jump in and didn't take the time and effort to build up. If the CMU was how they did X-men you'd have Iron Man, Thor 2 and End Game as a Trilogy. Nothing comes across since Days of Future past, things are randomly retconned in etc. You cannot build up the Tragedy of Jean without... you know build up...
 
Top Bottom