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[Spoilers] X-Men: Dark Phoenix

N0-1_H3r3

Bemused and Bewildered
Validated User
Haven’t seen the movie but wiki tells me it’s set 9 years after Apocalypse. So it’s not unreasonable to expect relationships between characters to have developed off screen, even if it’s still unsatisfying when a movie appears to expect you to be invested in a relationship you’ve never seen before.

Actually given each movie since First Class has jumped forward years so that we’ve now covered 3 decades of X-Men history, I think it’s kind of weird how some of the characters haven’t appeared to age much at all since the early 60s.
Yeah, the "each movie is set in a new decade" (First Class is 1962, Days of Future Past is 1973, Apocalypse is 1983, Dark Phoenix is 1992) thing is a nice-seeming gimmick that has a few side-effects: nobody seems to age, and you basically leave huge amounts of handwaved, assumed events between each movie, which is easy to screw up.

Magneto was maybe 10 in the intro to First Class, around 1943/1944. So he's around 30 in First Class. Fair enough. That means he's pushing 60 in Dark Phoenix.. Xavier is of similar age, maybe a little younger, and there's an obvious sense of visual continuity in his hair across the series (plus, he eventually ages into Patrick Stewart, who doesn't age). Mystique at least has the excuse of being an unaging shapeshifter to still look like a woman in her late 20s when she's in her 50s... but Beast is pretty much the same age as her, and he's aged well too. He doesn't have many years left to transform into Kelsey Grammar. The younger actors are easier - Scott, Jean, Kurt, and Ororo are teens in the 80s, so they're twenty-somethings now, and they'd be the thirty-somethings we saw in the first X-Men movie in a decade or so.

Also, carrying on the "one a decade" thing means that technically the hypothetical one after Dark Phoenix catches up with the original X-Men movie (Early 2000s, albeit with a different status quo, thanks to Days of Future Past).

And the thing is, for the first act of the movie, it looked like things would be ... fun. Weird, right? Like, you got costumes, space adventure, a FREAKING DAZZLER CAMEO ...
Incidentally, the actress playing Dazzler was Halston Sage, who played Lieutenant Alara Kitan in The Orville.
 

Anwar2

Registered User
Validated User
There's another problem.

The Dark Phoenix Saga in and of itself....just isn't that good anymore. I mean really, for back in the time it came out it stood out but in the decades since then comics have moved on and stories have moved on. What made DP work was that back then Jean had long since been seen as the weakest and least interesting of the O5 and Claremont did a lot to power her up and do things with her that made DP ultimately more shocking for it. But now it doesn't have much of an oomph to it as it once did.

Look at how the MCU did Civil War. They took a story that make be memorable but was memorable for being awful and they made it great.

The DPS needs the same thing. Reinvention.
 

Susanoo Orbatos

Social Justice Huckster
Validated User
There's another problem.

The Dark Phoenix Saga in and of itself....just isn't that good anymore. I mean really, for back in the time it came out it stood out but in the decades since then comics have moved on and stories have moved on. What made DP work was that back then Jean had long since been seen as the weakest and least interesting of the O5 and Claremont did a lot to power her up and do things with her that made DP ultimately more shocking for it. But now it doesn't have much of an oomph to it as it once did.

Look at how the MCU did Civil War. They took a story that make be memorable but was memorable for being awful and they made it great.

The DPS needs the same thing. Reinvention.

What makes DPS in the comics great is what makes its adaptation horrible.. unlike say Days of Future past which is a 2 issue self contained story. You have to build up Jean as a Character, you have to make people care about her. Pulling out of context is what ruins it, you can't do it all in one story. It needs to wrapped up and intertwined in other bits. You go back and read it in the comics its the slow burn, its in the back of what would easily be multiple x-men movies. YOu could easily swap out those things but what makes it important is the slow build the slow burn.
 

Rainfall

Registered User
Validated User
I must be some alien from another universe, because I've enjoyed it quite a lot and found the writing did a pretty good job, if a bit rushed.

I may have enjoyed it more than the last few Marvel movies I've seen, with the caveat that I fell off that particular wagon a bit before Infinity War.
 

Sabermane

Proud Fianna knight of hope and peace
Validated User
Honestly, I quietly hope that The God-Mouse doesn't do anything involving Phoenix, Professor X, or Magneto for the first few films. Heck, even Wolverine i'm a bit over.

I know, that's...basically impossible. But I want to see all the OTHER mutants that are out there!
 

Strange Visitor

Grumpy Grognard
Validated User
Honestly, I quietly hope that The God-Mouse doesn't do anything involving Phoenix, Professor X, or Magneto for the first few films. Heck, even Wolverine i'm a bit over.

I know, that's...basically impossible. But I want to see all the OTHER mutants that are out there!
I'm still of the opinion that they're unlikely to do anything with the X-franchise at all for a while.
 

Rachel Cartacos

Social Justice Dragon
Validated User
Magneto was maybe 10 in the intro to First Class, around 1943/1944. So he's around 30 in First Class. Fair enough. That means he's pushing 60 in Dark Phoenix.. Xavier is of similar age, maybe a little younger, and there's an obvious sense of visual continuity in his hair across the series (plus, he eventually ages into Patrick Stewart, who doesn't age).
Maybe they both went through their age reductions arcs they had in the comics off screen between years? :D
 

Anwar2

Registered User
Validated User
Odds are the real reason was that the Studio didn't want to put them in old man makeup that would make it harder for them to act through.

Though if they wanted to avoid that they shouldn't have bothered with so many time jumps!
 

ShadowbaneX

Registered User
Validated User
I caught this today and, while I wasn't expecting much, it turned out to be pretty good. It could have been better if it had the full MCU treatment and was the culmination of a 4+ movie arc as others have mentioned, and it does seem a pale reflection of Captain Marvel, right down to the not-skrulls on one side and the government caught in a bind on the other, but at the end, I rather enjoyed it.

I did rather like Jean not committing genocide and having to die for her crimes. I get that Dark Phoenix is a well loved comic arc, but I'm a little happier with her living. For a second I thought they were going to kill all three of the big names. I can see Jennifer Lawrence wanting out, as she doesn't really seem suited for her role. I'm not sure who she should have been. My friend said that he'd read that she might have been better suited as Rogue, but even then I'm not sure. Reworking the story to make her a hero instead of just the occasional villain seems off. As does the series ending with a friendly game of chess at the Café of Old Friends on Peace Street. Added eye roll for Xavier winding up with the white pawn. Probably should have been the reverse since Xavier and the X-Men are usually on the defensive.

Also, the train car fight was rather...brutal. I guess it was good that the not-skrulls were there and unrepentantly evil as it let the director really show what going up against really powerful mutants should be like. It didn't quite reach John Wick 3 levels of horrible demise, but I did feel bad for some of them.

At the end though, it was way better than I was expecting given the reviews and I quite enjoyed it.
 

wheloc

He's trying real hard to be one of the good guys.
RPGnet Member
Validated User
I caught this today and, while I wasn't expecting much, it turned out to be pretty good. It could have been better if it had the full MCU treatment and was the culmination of a 4+ movie arc as others have mentioned, and it does seem a pale reflection of Captain Marvel, right down to the not-skrulls on one side and the government caught in a bind on the other, but at the end, I rather enjoyed it.

I did rather like Jean not committing genocide and having to die for her crimes. I get that Dark Phoenix is a well loved comic arc, but I'm a little happier with her living. For a second I thought they were going to kill all three of the big names. I can see Jennifer Lawrence wanting out, as she doesn't really seem suited for her role. I'm not sure who she should have been. My friend said that he'd read that she might have been better suited as Rogue, but even then I'm not sure. Reworking the story to make her a hero instead of just the occasional villain seems off. As does the series ending with a friendly game of chess at the Café of Old Friends on Peace Street. Added eye roll for Xavier winding up with the white pawn. Probably should have been the reverse since Xavier and the X-Men are usually on the defensive.

Also, the train car fight was rather...brutal. I guess it was good that the not-skrulls were there and unrepentantly evil as it let the director really show what going up against really powerful mutants should be like. It didn't quite reach John Wick 3 levels of horrible demise, but I did feel bad for some of them.

At the end though, it was way better than I was expecting given the reviews and I quite enjoyed it.
I heartily agree with that (bolding mine). I cut the comics some slack, since one could argue that they had written themselves into a corner with the character, and so maybe the only way she could be redeemed was through her death. The movie wouldn't had that excuse, since the got to write the whole plot out before filming started, so I'm glad they chose a more "empowered" arc for her.
 
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