Star Trek Discovery - Red Angel - Spoilers

Mallus

Registered User
Validated User
We get Gregory House antic from Pol Pot and their show to be humorous distraction.
But Mirror Georgiou isn't Pol Pot. She's Ming the Merciless (in a catsuit).

The Mirror Universe isn't used to make serious inquiries into or commentaries on evil. It's there for Star Trek writers to have fun, to cut loose. Think back to the original MU episode, "Mirror, Mirror"; MU denizens act and dress like barbarian pirates, everyone carries an "agonizer", the star map-and-laurels emblem of the Federation is replaced by a big sword through the Earth - it's a whole parallel universe of cartoon villainy. By design. This trend is continued in DS9 with things like the high-camp Intendant.

The one somewhat serious thing the conceit is used for in "Mirror, Mirror" is to characterize Mr. Spock. Turns out he's pretty much the same person in both universes. As for Georgiou, I'm fine with her being funny, in the same way I don't begrudge Ming or Hannibal Lector the occasional bot mot.

I can understand not like the Mirror Universe, but as far as I can tell Discovery is using it as intended.
 

HDimagination

Building something out of Scrap
Validated User
God, they better fucking not.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, that would be a grave insult to their audience's intelligence.
You're not wrong, but I do feel like Disco season 2 is setting up to address a number of fan criticisms of Season one, like the whole 'Klingons shave their heads in times of war!' thing. I think they should have stuck to their guns regarding the redesign, personally. Pandering to Fan criticisms like that could well result in some kind of 'in universe' justification for why the old enterprise didn't look like a 'modern ship'.


But Mirror Georgiou isn't Pol Pot. She's Ming the Merciless (in a catsuit).
Well that immediately conjured two images in my mind:

1) a Remake of Flash Gordon starting Michelle Yeoh as Ming (Thank You for that!)
2) An image of Max von Sydow in a Catsuit (you monster.)
 

DarkStarling

Brilliantly Crazed
Validated User
Sort of? We find out in this episode that the red angel suit was being built by Michael's parents back when she was a child, and we know that the Red Angel's human. So, if we ignore the whole "capabilities beyond what the Federation can do," it makes sense.
Well the time travel itself is a really REALLY crude version of the rift drive they’ll have in two centuries. And I wouldn’t be surprised if they were using knowledge from the future to help make it work. But either way, the Angel Suit is basically the Phoenix of this particular technology.

As for the other stuff the Red Angel can do, I’m assuming they picked up the tools in the future.
 

SetentaeBolg

Registered User
Validated User
But Mirror Georgiou isn't Pol Pot. She's Ming the Merciless (in a catsuit).

The Mirror Universe isn't used to make serious inquiries into or commentaries on evil. It's there for Star Trek writers to have fun, to cut loose. Think back to the original MU episode, "Mirror, Mirror"; MU denizens act and dress like barbarian pirates, everyone carries an "agonizer", the star map-and-laurels emblem of the Federation is replaced by a big sword through the Earth - it's a whole parallel universe of cartoon villainy. By design. This trend is continued in DS9 with things like the high-camp Intendant.

The one somewhat serious thing the conceit is used for in "Mirror, Mirror" is to characterize Mr. Spock. Turns out he's pretty much the same person in both universes. As for Georgiou, I'm fine with her being funny, in the same way I don't begrudge Ming or Hannibal Lector the occasional bot mot.

I can understand not like the Mirror Universe, but as far as I can tell Discovery is using it as intended.
I remember watching Mirror Mirror when TOS was played in the UK in the 80s - it is not camp in the slightest (it is now dated, of course, and in retrospect may appear silly to a modern audience unprepared to adjust its view of an old show), and certainly not camp in the way that deliberately camp TOS episodes were. If they didn't intend Georgiou to be a serious character I question what she's doing in an otherwise serious show. The only outright comedic character we've seen is Mudd, who is quite clearly (in TOS and Discovery) drawn as such. I think the whole idea that we should just laugh at how ridiculous she is, is a clear recognition that she is utterly ridiculous as written.
 

Agamemnon2

Registered User
Validated User
Well that immediately conjured two images in my mind:

1) a Remake of Flash Gordon starting Michelle Yeoh as Ming (Thank You for that!)
2) An image of Max von Sydow in a Catsuit (you monster.)
I'll do you one better. A gender-flipped remake of Flash Gordon. Gina Carano plays Flash Gordon. :)
 

LibraryLass

Feminazgûl
Validated User
I remember watching Mirror Mirror when TOS was played in the UK in the 80s - it is not camp in the slightest (it is now dated, of course, and in retrospect may appear silly to a modern audience unprepared to adjust its view of an old show), and certainly not camp in the way that deliberately camp TOS episodes were.
Are we talking about the same Mirror Mirror here?

The one where everyone has a big sash and Chekov launches a coup attempt?

Edit: And it's not like at any point in the intervening fifty years the MU wasn't used for even more self-aware camp.

If they didn't intend Georgiou to be a serious character I question what she's doing in an otherwise serious show.
I believe you overestimate the seriousness of both Disco and Star Trek in general. Star Trek always has been pulpy Space Opera-- yes with something to say, often, but just as often for fun-- and is continuing to be.

The only outright comedic character we've seen is Mudd, who is quite clearly (in TOS and Discovery) drawn as such. I think the whole idea that we should just laugh at how ridiculous she is, is a clear recognition that she is utterly ridiculous as written.
That she's capable of being funny doesn't mean she's a clown. She's somewhat in the same position as Tilly in that respect, or Data.
 
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Dantay

Knight of Dantay
Validated User
I believe you overestimate the seriousness of both Disco and Star Trek in general. Star Trek always has been pulpy Space Opera-- yes with something to say, often, but just as often for fun-- and is continuing to be.
Star Trek has still always been willing to examine its own premise - sometimes executed well, other times not - and the morals it raises. I can't really think of the show ever really holding up a genocidal monster who brags about having ended other species as anything but a badguy. Even if Georgiou was Ming the Merciless, Ming is still a villain, and meant to be treated as the morally reprehensible creature he is. Georgiou here is basically just a step away from being Catwoman, and it's a serious narrative problem, especially when the series asks us to condemn much lesser monsters like Leland while she stands right beside him. It actively diminishes the show, and the moral stance it tries to project.
 
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