Taking inspiration from FFG's Star Wars resolution for a different setting, but doing it with normal or Fate dice

Miss Atomic Bomb

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I like the way that two similar rolls in FFG WFRP and Star Wars can produce very different results. In FFG, you can get a critical success while also having it come with a catch or an positive rider, and I like that.

I'm thinking on a game design where I'd like to capture some of the characteristics of FFG dice: advantage "ands" and disadvantage "buts" fully independent of success on your main goal, with the occasional chance of criticals for good and ill.

I'd like character traits to have a significant influence on outcome.

Is there a good way to model these outcomes with other dice types? I've got some ideas which I'll post in a bit, but would like to start the thread without the bias of my mixed-success attempts.

(They don't have to be mixed size pools, although I was leaning that way. Something done with different-colored dice of the same size might work.)

Thank you for any thoughts.
 
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zedturtle

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Well, one obvious solution would be to combine your dice. I.E., roll your regular dice to determine pass/fail and your Fate dice to determine bonus/nothing/detriment.
 
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TheMouse

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I think that the simplest way might be something like the check digit from In Nomine. Maybe you roll 2d6+dF for everything. The 2d6 gets added to a trait versus a difficulty to determine success or failure. Minus on the Fudge die is a complication, plus is an extra. This gives you an impact from competence, and success and failure is totally apart from the and/but axis.

Otherkind Dice might also be an inspiration.
 

jasin

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At the simplest: roll two dice, one to determine success/failure, one to determine other circumstances (advantage/disadvantage).

But FFG Star Wars also draws a distinction between talent and training, if I remember correctly? Talent skews slightly towards lucky breaks, training towards reliable performance? Is this important to keep (if it's even correct; I've only played FFG SW once)?
 

loconius

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zedturtle

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At the simplest: roll two dice, one to determine success/failure, one to determine other circumstances (advantage/disadvantage).

But FFG Star Wars also draws a distinction between talent and training, if I remember correctly? Talent skews slightly towards lucky breaks, training towards reliable performance? Is this important to keep (if it's even correct; I've only played FFG SW once)?
Sort of, yeah. You have attributes and skills. Each skill belongs to an attribute. When you test a skill, you make a pool of dice equal to the highest of the two values (attribute or skill). Then you upgrade a number of dice equal to the lower value. So you need both natural talent (attribute) and learned ability (skill) to do your very best.

We can do something similar... say you have a pile of d6s and a pile of Fate dice. Your Attribute could determine how many d6s to roll; your Skill the number of Fate dice. Or maybe you get to pick which is which. In any case, maybe a 5+ on the d6 is a Success. A '+' on the Fate dice is an Advantage, which you can use to upgrade something else. A '-' is a Disadvantage, which hurts you or helps the enemy.

The only difficulty is that Fate dice are fair. So you'd need some sort of mechanism or special ability for heroes to be able to discard Disadvantages, or reroll them. Otherwise, in the end, rolling Fate dice won't really matter... the Advantages should be cancelled (in the long run) by the Disadvantages.
 

Malckuss

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I think that the simplest way might be something like the check digit from In Nomine. Maybe you roll 2d6+dF for everything. The 2d6 gets added to a trait versus a difficulty to determine success or failure. Minus on the Fudge die is a complication, plus is an extra. This gives you an impact from competence, and success and failure is totally apart from the and/but axis.

Otherkind Dice might also be an inspiration.
These games use regular dice and feature "and" and "but" results indipendent of success or failure (or almost do in some cases). All use regular gaming dice (polyhedral)

End of the world
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=5027

Firefly
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/128012/Firefly-RolePlaying-Game-Corebook

Freeform Universal
http://www.rpgnow.com/product/89534/FU-The-Freeform-Universal-RPG
The Star Wars Hack I'm working on is built on the back of Firefly. Cortex Plus does a pretty good job of doing something like the FFG dice. I have no experience with End of the World, but I have heard that it is essentially almost exactly the same as the FFG Star Wars but with regular dice. I think FU might skew a bit toward the higher end as you take the single highest die you roll for the outcome, as in Blades in the Dark (which probably also deserves mention here; one of the strechgoal playsets sounds very much like the premise behind Edge of the Empire).

I have actually contemplated using two Fate/Fudge dice, each of a separate color, for my SW Hack. One would represent the light side of the force, the other the dark side. A + on the lightside die would net an Asset or Resource for the player, and a - on the die would be a complication for the opponent/opposing roll (all die rolls in Firefly are opposed checks, a system of "raising the stakes"). Rolling a + on the darkside die would grow the Darkside pool (dice the GM can use to pump up the opposition) and a - on the die would be a complication for the player/crew. The dice cancel one another out, as usual.

I'm not entirely certain how this would work out in play, so I'm not going to use it in the convention-one shot at all. But I might use it in a session in the game I run regularly with my crew.

EDIT: It occurs to me, though, both for my hack and in Zedturtle's idea - what if the dice didn't cancel one another out? What if they could hand out Advantages and complications at the same time? Would that net the effect Emprint is after?
 
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Miss Atomic Bomb

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Thanks for all the thoughts so far!

EDIT: It occurs to me, though, both for my hack and in Zedturtle's idea - what if the dice didn't cancel one another out? What if they could hand out Advantages and complications at the same time? Would that net the effect Emprint is after?
I was thinking of having a normal roll (a mixed size pool, count successes or oppose TN), then add red Fate dice for boosts and black ones for hindrances. A red + is an "and," giving you a side benefit. A black - is a "but," creating a side problem. Red -s and black +s get ignored, except when a special ability uses them.
 
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Mike McCall

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Thanks for all the thoughts so far!

I was thinking of having a normal roll (a mixed size pool, count successes or oppose TN), then add red Fate dice for boosts and black ones for hindrances. A red + is an "and," giving you a side benefit. A black - is a "but," creating a side problem. Red -s and black +s get ignored, except when a special ability uses them.
That's definitely workable. My current design/hack project uses a similar philosophy. I really like attaching it specifically to the boost/hindrance thing, though.
 
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