• Don't link to the video of the Christchurch shooting, or repost links to the shooter's manifesto.

That's it, interest in Saga over

Nawara

Proud to be a
RPGnet Member
Validated User
#52
I don't really care that some athletic people can't swim in the real world. Star Wars shows more differentiation between Pilots of the three ship classes than it does between athletes from various planets.

Having now seen the skill list, I'm ready to formally declare that I think the Climb/Jump/Swim split is really dumb. They've got to be the three most useless skills on the list. Athletics, on the other hand, would be about equally-powered with the other skills. As someone with an affinity for D&D characters that know how to swim, I always felt like I was getting screwed putting a whole bunch of points in not drowning (and believe me, it takes a whole bunch of points to not drown...). Especially when the same skill points would get me a sweet Spot, Listen, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, or Knowledge (arcana) bonus.

I think, while some people will gripe about Swim but be forced to take it for background skill reasons, Climb and Jump will just turn into the Use Rope of Saga Edition for the vast majority of character archetypes. Nobody will complain because nobody will have them except published NPCs. And that's a good thing, because those are skill points they won't be spending on something useful.

Oh well... I'm just hoping that Knowledges are more granular in Saga than they are in Revised Core. Otherwise, my Trandoshan lawyer/scoundrel concept is going to get hosed again.

-Jeff
 

Sangrolu

Social Justice Ninja
Validated User
#53
Why is someone playing a blue-collar electrician in a Spycraft game?!?

I kid, I know people use it for all sorts of things, but that that jumped out at me.
Answering the question anyways: the 2.0 revision took Spycraft from being my go-to game for espionage to being my go-to game for all modern action.

And even if you are doing espionage, spies come from all walks of life...
 

Jim DelRosso

Magnificent Bastard
Validated User
#54
Having now seen the skill list, I'm ready to formally declare that I think the Climb/Jump/Swim split is really dumb. They've got to be the three most useless skills on the list.
If those three skills are the same as they've been in previous d20 games, I'll agree with you. (Though I've a friend who just played a fighter in an Eberron game who swears by Jump as the most fun skill ever. ;))

However, I'm still holding out to see the actual skill write-ups. They've shown no hesitation to radically change mechanics in making Saga, and we've seen this in the new definition of AoOs, the new definition of HPs, and the radically changed skill system. As I said, it's still possible that these skills will be beefed up, either with Trained-only uses or other bennies, so that they're not as weak as their previous incarnations.

Granted, I've no evidence that this will be the case. But enough other things have changed that the possibility exists, and I'd rather remain hopeful at this stage, and not make an assumption that I know everything there is to know about Saga's version of Jump, Climb, or Swim.
 

The Fallen

Still needs suburi
Validated User
#55
If those three skills are the same as they've been in previous d20 games, I'll agree with you. (Though I've a friend who just played a fighter in an Eberron game who swears by Jump as the most fun skill ever. ;))

However, I'm still holding out to see the actual skill write-ups. They've shown no hesitation to radically change mechanics in making Saga, and we've seen this in the new definition of AoOs, the new definition of HPs, and the radically changed skill system. As I said, it's still possible that these skills will be beefed up, either with Trained-only uses or other bennies, so that they're not as weak as their previous incarnations.

Granted, I've no evidence that this will be the case. But enough other things have changed that the possibility exists, and I'd rather remain hopeful at this stage, and not make an assumption that I know everything there is to know about Saga's version of Jump, Climb, or Swim.
I agree with this. There is a good chance that things like tumbling and acrobatics will be now under Jump. Even if it's not, this is quite secondary feature compared to many other improvements that are being made to the game.
 

Jim DelRosso

Magnificent Bastard
Validated User
#56
I agree with this. There is a good chance that things like tumbling and acrobatics will be now under Jump. Even if it's not, this is quite secondary feature compared to many other improvements that are being made to the game.
Sadly, it seems a developer mentioned combining Tumble and Balance into a new "Acrobatics" skill. I'd love a link on that one, since I'm always curious to read the developers' comments on Saga. But even if that's the case, it doesn't mean there won't be other cool stuff folded into the skills.

However, having said that, I've probably jinxed it. ;)
 

The Fallen

Still needs suburi
Validated User
#57
Sadly, it seems a developer mentioned combining Tumble and Balance into a new "Acrobatics" skill. I'd love a link on that one, since I'm always curious to read the developers' comments on Saga. But even if that's the case, it doesn't mean there won't be other cool stuff folded into the skills.

However, having said that, I've probably jinxed it. ;)
I see. Well, it makes sense as both were Dexterity skills and are related. If I were them I would make the game with two 'movement skills': Acrobatics (Dex), and Athletics (Str) One still could hope that Jump, Climb and Swim (specially Jump) will have cool options that make them more tempting.

As I said before, minor bug, nothing unfixable.
 

BlackSheep

Wise and Insightful
Validated User
#58
Sadly, it seems a developer mentioned combining Tumble and Balance into a new "Acrobatics" skill. I'd love a link on that one, since I'm always curious to read the developers' comments on Saga.
It's from the developers' chat transcript.

<RodneyThompson> I don't want to list them all, but for example Search, Spot, Listen, and Sense Motive have all been folded into a Perception skill that
pretty much encompasses all of those. Likewise, look for Tumble and Escape Artist to fold into Acrobatics. Since a lot of this is subject to change, I don't
want to get into too many specifics, but you get the idea.
 

DigitalMage

Geek in wolf's clothing
Validated User
#59
Just as a comparison the Mutants & Masterminds Mastermind Manual has an option for broad skills which groups skills together, and here is what they do:

Athletics: Includes the Acrobatics, Climb, Ride, and Swim subskills

And interestingly in the base rules Acrobatics is already a collection of Acrobatics, Balance, Jump (based upon the Narrow Skills option also in MM that breaks skills up even further).

Personally I always though Swim should be an assumed ability in a game, and if a player wants a character who can't swim they take it as a drawback.

Now in Saga as Swim is presumably untrained and you get half your level, maybe it is assumed that everyone can swim (depends on what DCs they set) and people who get the Swim skill are just exceptional at it (and it may be a racial ability for Quarren and Mon Calamari etc).
 
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