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The Dark Eye RPG - opinions?

SibKhatru

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This is exactly what you do

(Snip)

The main drawback is that it is extremly hard to estaimate you chance of success. (Little test: what is the propabiliy to succeed if you have attributes of 12/11/13 and 7 skill ranks? Is it better or worse than having 13/14/12 and 4 skill ranks?)
Is buying off a voluntary step or always triggered by the missed roll(s)?
 

Rulandor

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Wasn't it 6 elements (the classic 4 plus life/wood and death/ice) and the 2 principles of order/metal and chaos/magan? With a multiverse that sorts it's planes by the the number of primary elements. So there's 6 monoelemental planes on one end of the order-chaos axis and one omnielemental plane of absolute chaos on the other end. Midgard itself is from the central plane of earth, air, water, while the elves migrated from the minor chaos plane of earth, air, water and life/wood. Summoners are either elementalists (summoning from worlds with less elements) or demonologist (summoning from worlds with more elements). Some not-japanese mages also summon metal elementals, even tough metal is not even a real element.
You are right. I had the wrong numbers.

There are six true elements and two primal materials, all in all 8 Essences in Midgard.

This is meta-knowledge. In game, no magic tradition got the complete picture. The Druids of the pseudo-european cultures to not even know that there is the element "Wood" fuelling their Dweomer spells. In far-eastern KanThaiPan, wood is known to be an element, but the Dweomer is completely unknown there.
 

Zehnseiter

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Thanks. :) Can't say it sounds like something I'd enjoy ...
Well a discussion about the merits of the TDE 3D20 skill roll can get as heated as a D&D alignment discussion.....;)

A lot of people flat out hate it, a surprisingly high number of people like it and a large number of people want to have it in the game because it is seen as something akin to a holy cow in the game. Ulisses did some research before writing 5E and if I remember correct about 70% of the German players wanted them to keep it.

Personally I would burn it with fire but I must accept that I am in the minority here. My hope is that the simpler system that the TDE off shot game "Die schwarze Katze" will use is easily portable to TDE 5E.
 
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kronovan

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My pen'n'paper experience with DSA is limited to a short campaign played in the early 90's along with a group of German exchange students. The GM was truly skilled though and to this day she's one of the best GMs I've ever sat down to a table with. My only experience with RPGs at the time was D&D, AD&D and Travelers, so DSA was quite a different experience. I'm never been 100% about the edition as I just jumped in, but I'm fairly certain that it was 1e as IIRC it only featured 1d20 rolls. A very enjoyable experience and I was very charmed by the setting of Aventuria.

My p'n'p experience may be minimal, but I've had a good deal of experience with a pared-down version of the DSA rules via playing the videogames like Blackguards, Drakensang and the remakes of the Realms of Arkania games. To date, those are among my favorite RPGs and I can say the DSA rules (they utilize 4e) work very well when adapted to that gaming medium. Having since read the 4e CRB, the videogames do appear to have been reasonably faithful adaptations of them. You'll find just as many players of the videogames though as there is among p'n'p players, that complain about the rule complexity. The videogames of course shield you from the 3d20 rolls and math, but in truth you have to understand that play mechanic to effectively advance your party of PCs. IMO that added crunch & reading is the explanation for why a number of the games haven't reviewed better, because the art, plots and adventures are definitely more than decent.

What I like about the 3d20 skill rolls, is that you can see the impact of the 8 core attributes that drive them. So for those GMs or players wanting a p'n'p where attributes have a strong impact, I haven't seen a better system than DSA. I've become a big fan of the Aventuria setting and have purchased the Almanac and Bestiary, and have repurchased the 5e equivalents. The quality of those books is impressive and no doubt the reason the 5e Almanac won an Ennie a few years back at Gen Con. I haven't ever read any of the adventures, but I'm aware that some of the adventure writers of those also wrote the videogame stories. If the quality is equivalent, I'd be happy with running them. There is the metaplots and they do also form background for some of the videogames, but I've found them to be decent and not the convoluted, twisters we've seen in some of the D&D settings.

I'd be content to run a campaign with DSA, but I know I wouldn't be able to get my players to bite on the crunch. My plan for running a campaign in Aventuria, is to adapt the setting to D&D 5e and use the Cultures and Virtues approach for races that Cubicle 7 used with Adventures in Middle Earth. For magic I'd begin with something like the spell list in the AiME 5e optional magic rules, and add or omit spells to align it better with DSA. Of course I have way to much homebrewing on my plate to realistically ever get to it, but that's how'd I probably do it. ;)
 

SibKhatru

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Is buying off a voluntary step or always triggered by the missed roll(s)?
Aha, never mind, now I see that it's the 0 or higher ranks that indicates success/quality of success... got it. I love probability puzzles. This one rides on the fact that probability of failure isn't the key, but rather the degree of failure... so a spreadsheet could be handy here.

If I am interpreting correctly, all three dice must be equal to or below the relevant stat, and the buy-off of the failures is according to the degree of failure (right? if the TN was 11 and a 15 was rolled, would the buy off be 4 ranks).

I was wondering: does the system prioritize the buy-off, or does the player choose? I mean, an interesting effect here is the source of failure, so that if buy-off of ranks leaves the player with less than 0 ranks, then a fail state is reached.
 
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Hivemind

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The big Magic expansion for The Dark Eye is now on Kickstarter!

Explore the deeper mysteries of The Dark Eye with Magic of Aventuria and enhance your gameplay with additional rules, professions and archetypes on 240 pages! Magic of Aventuria gives you access to new magical traditions, perks and spells and gives you the background of what magic is like in Aventuria. Magic of Aventuria allows you to take complete control over the mystical art by delving into some of its strangest and most powerful practices of every kind of magic – from word, to song, to dance. Expand your magical repertoire with new traditions, spells and enchantments! Nearly two dozen profession packages expand options for starting characters and new focus rules for spell workshops allow mages to develop new and exciting spell effects!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ulissesspiele/the-dark-eye-magic-of-aventuria
 

Litpho

Wandering stranger
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This is exactly what you do. In detail:
1. Every skill is linked to 3 attributes
2. You roll 3D20 of different colors, declaring in advance which coler is linked to which attribute (in practice you just use the same color sequence, so "green is first", "blus is second" and "red is third - this way you declare once for all rolls in the game)
3. You try do get below or equal all your respective attribute ratings (which are usually with values between 8 and 15)
4. You can use skill ranks to "buy-off" on rolls where you rolled higher than the attribute
5. If you end up with 0 or positive skill ransk you succeed, with the number of excess skill ranks describing the quality of success

e.g. attributes are 12/13/10 and you have 7 skill ranks. Your roll 3/15/12:
first roll 3 < 12 --> no problem
second roll 15 > 13 --> need to spend 2 skill ranks to balance the high roll
third 12 > 10 --> spend another 2 skill ranks
--> check is passed with 3 skill ranks remaining


Overall not the most elegant/lean system, but after some practice it doesn't take too much time. It has the benfit of being non-linear and creating conststant results.
The main drawback is that it is extremly hard to estaimate you chance of success. (Little test: what is the propabiliy to succeed if you have attributes of 12/11/13 and 7 skill ranks? Is it better or worse than having 13/14/12 and 4 skill ranks?)
What I really like about this system (apart from the fact that it plays more smoothly than it reads), is that it makes buying both attributes and skills interesting for their own reasons, without either being the no-brainer option. Attributes makes all related skill checks more likely to succeed, but spending on skills make it more likely (or even possible) for those skills to succeed better than scraping by.
 

Matt.Ceb

40 Years of Unknown Pleasures
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Yeah, raising Attributes ("raw power") allows you to succeed more often in tests.
Actually raising the skill ("talent"/"skill"/"refinement") in question will allow you to actually succeed /better/. (Especially in TDE5, in which the quality steps are wholly depended on how many skill-points you have left, not on how well you rolled.

So your skill level is a cap on how well you can do things.

Which is a pretty cool, subtle game design twist.

High-Attribute people will succeed often, but mostly only attain average/basic successes. (A smith will be able to churn out horseshoes reliably.)
A high-skill person will be able to do more with those successes. (A smith will be able to produce masterwork weapons.)
 
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