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The Last of The GoT Hot takes: Lindsay Ellis video part 2

Qwa'ha Xahn

High King of the Known Worlds
Validated User
And boy, it’s a doozy. Longest video I’ve seen her do (by far if we count part one as well). Damn good, though, as just about everything I’ve seen from her has been. Also managed to make me nervous about DnD on Star Wars, which up to now I haven’t been. My initial take was, “yeah, they royally fucked up Game of Thrones, but they fucked it up in ways I think will work for Star Wars”. After seeing it all put together in one place as Ellis does... I’m no longer so sure. I still think things are ok... but eeeenh. Let’s just say my hope to comfortable certainty ratios have changed.
 

Shay Guy

Registered User
Validated User
Six minutes in. Favorite line so far is "...I have to assume this story was intended to have a point because it ends with a dragon burning the symbolism."
 

Brontes

Registered User
Validated User
I'm having a minor mental goof at Tyrion's dumb Daenerys speech because I keep linking it to two points and I trip a bit on the second.
1. That the people/audience were blind to Daenerys's true nature because it benefited them/nazi complacency shit
2. That Daenerys was bad because she believed in her anti-slavery ideology too hard.

And I don't really have Lindsay's media literacy or familiarity with GOT, but going by just the scenes the video presents I got the impression that Tyrion/the show wasn't saying that Daenerys believed too hard but that any ideology she expressed was largely subservient to a need for validation since part of the speech includes a bit about how people validate her actions to her and there is at least one clip where it bugs her that Jon Snow is more popular than her (alongside similar clips).

It still has a whiff of bullshit given, as Lindsay points out, Daenerys doesn't really surround herself with yes-men among other things, it's just not the conclusion I drew from what was presented.
 

Save-vs-DM

Knight of Stumptown
RPGnet Member
Validated User
Okay, I feel ashamed, but is there a condensed version of this? I'm having a really hard time plowing through over an hour of speaking. I mean what I've been hearing is great, but still, an hour is a bit much. Does it just boil down to "GoT people done fucked up?"
 

Shay Guy

Registered User
Validated User
Okay, I feel ashamed, but is there a condensed version of this? I'm having a really hard time plowing through over an hour of speaking. I mean what I've been hearing is great, but still, an hour is a bit much. Does it just boil down to "GoT people done fucked up?"
A lot is covered by “none of what these people are doing follows from their established psychology” (including the collective smallfolk). If you want to skip to the climactic extra-long Danaerys segment, it’s 46 minutes in, and a lot of the threads converge on her anyway — like Tyrion behaving in ways that make no sense for him so that he’ll be more sympathetic than her, or how the show refuses to pursue the natural consequences of Cersei blowing up the sept because if it did, then the only plausible result would be Danaerys being greeted as a liberator and getting all the acclamation she wants, or how the removal of (f)Aegon means Varys’s reasoning for damn near anything he does becomes incredibly weak.
 
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Menocchio

Eccentric Thousandaire
Validated User
I've only read the books, so it's most interesting to me to see where the wheels fell off after they ran out of GRRM's material, and try to pick up the scraps of where GRRM was actually going with this. Stuff like Tyrion probably becoming a very bad influence on Dany, and Faeron forcing Dany into a villainous position. There's enough signposts that I can easily believe Martin intended Dany to be the final villain of the story, but it needed a lot of nuance and indirect action and other people screwing her over before we got there, which apparently the show failed to provide.
 

Iustum

RPGnet Newsletter Editor
RPGnet Member
Validated User
As with just about all of her videos, this was great. The one point that struck me (as an avid book reader but indifferent show watcher) was the argument that Jamie should have been the one to kill the Night King to bring his Kingslayer "redemption" arc full circle. I'd not thought about that before, but having been slapped in the face with it, I really like it.
 

Uqbarian

Member
RPGnet Member
Validated User
As with just about all of her videos, this was great. The one point that struck me (as an avid book reader but indifferent show watcher) was the argument that Jamie should have been the one to kill the Night King to bring his Kingslayer "redemption" arc full circle. I'd not thought about that before, but having been slapped in the face with it, I really like it.
Plus it's right there in his nickname!
 

Naxuul

Emo hair power!
Validated User
Okay, I feel ashamed, but is there a condensed version of this? I'm having a really hard time plowing through over an hour of speaking. I mean what I've been hearing is great, but still, an hour is a bit much. Does it just boil down to "GoT people done fucked up?"
I feel like the best summation comes from her first video "So the ending was bad. But it was foreshadowed.. by all the other things that were bad". Basically it lays out a common realization post-finale that essentially the show had just been not good for a while and this was already foreshadowed by how bad the writing got when D&D were writing things without a GRRM narrative parachute even in season 1-4. She goes more in depth but it mostly comes down to 'poorly written characters do things that don't make sense but push the narrative towards a intended ending, sideboard of treating female characters like shit and making male characters angels too good for this world'.

-Naxuul
 
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