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The Sandman TV series: a Netflix original

Menocchio

Eccentric Thousandaire
Validated User
Depends how much they’ve made the point through the rest of the series that in Sandman gods are fallible and small.
It's also a specific rejection of TERFs in neopaganism, which would go right over the heads of most of the audience if it's even still a relevant criticism.
 

Taraqual

Words words words
Validated User
That's the dilemma, her death and the fall out of it provides scenes that help illustrate the petty dickishness of her family and others, but does the world really need to kill another transwoman for that?
At the time, it was rare to have trans people visible in any media, except as jokes, and especially not as secondary protagonists in comics or sweeping fantasy. Gaiman conceived of it as the sacrifice of a complicated but ultimately sympathetic character who was important to the plot, not just there to motivate the "real" hero.

But it's been a long time since, we've seen this trope played in a lot of ways and most of them played badly, and it hasn't aged well. I know Gaiman has said he'd probably do things differently if he wrote that story these days (although I don't know if he'll have any say in how the show handles it, if it does). Granted, he hasn't said what "differently" means to him. Would Wanda live? Would there be more effort into illustrating the points? Would he need to hit the same points? But it might be a chance to reflect a better understanding of the situation and response to the critques of it.

It's also a specific rejection of TERFs in neopaganism, which would go right over the heads of most of the audience if it's even still a relevant criticism.
Hell, I only learned what TERF meant in the past few years (thanks to RPG.net), so it definitely went over my head at the time.
 

HDimagination

Building something out of Scrap
Validated User
Wanda's death provides the ultimate confirmation that she is who she says she is. Her soul is female therefore human society and asshole gods are both wrong.
A lot of people missed that at the time. Yeah, I mean, when you've got Death endorsing your identity, that is as close as you can get to ultimate cosmic validation. They might just be able to remove the section where Hecate explicitly forbids her passage on the moon's path and give her a reason to choose to stay behind perhaps?

I mean, I've got no place trying to untie this knot really as a hetro Cis white guy. I think that the best thing they can do is find some Trans writers to help bring that storyline to life. Maybe also get some help handling the stuff with Foxglove and Hazel as well. If done badly, that could be pretty bad as well. I think that the whole of 'A Game of You' could do with some heavy input from LGBT writers in general.
 

Ghola

Veteran of 100k psychic wars
Validated User
A lot of people missed that at the time. Yeah, I mean, when you've got Death endorsing your identity, that is as close as you can get to ultimate cosmic validation. They might just be able to remove the section where Hecate explicitly forbids her passage on the moon's path and give her a reason to choose to stay behind perhaps?

I mean, I've got no place trying to untie this knot really as a hetro Cis white guy. I think that the best thing they can do is find some Trans writers to help bring that storyline to life. Maybe also get some help handling the stuff with Foxglove and Hazel as well. If done badly, that could be pretty bad as well. I think that the whole of 'A Game of You' could do with some heavy input from LGBT writers in general.
I think a statement from Thesally about how the gods are still horrible after all this time would be enough.
 

AJ the Ronin

I am Loki
Validated User
I think that the whole of 'A Game of You' could do with some heavy input from LGBT writers in general.
I think that would be the wisest choice.


That said, A Game of You, changed my very narrow view of the LGBT community at the time. It didn't made me an ally right away, but it challenged a few conceptions I had as a latino straight man that and help me eventually undo some prejudices that I didn't even consider as such then.
 

Menocchio

Eccentric Thousandaire
Validated User
Hell, I only learned what TERF meant in the past few years (thanks to RPG.net), so it definitely went over my head at the time.
I'm not entirely sure if the acronym had been coined yet when that comic was published. The people and opinions it describes were certainly there, and that's what's being portrayed. A bigot god for a bigoted belief system. But yeah, that's a nuance especially since (IIRC) that goddess isn't really a character with personal flaws and demonstrable universally held wrong opinions the way several other deities are in that story.
 

Ghola

Veteran of 100k psychic wars
Validated User
I'm not entirely sure if the acronym had been coined yet when that comic was published. The people and opinions it describes were certainly there, and that's what's being portrayed. A bigot god for a bigoted belief system. But yeah, that's a nuance especially since (IIRC) that goddess isn't really a character with personal flaws and demonstrable universally held wrong opinions the way several other deities are in that story.
A good point but I thought that being a Greek god was enough of a demonstration, since about 95% of myths show them as being like the worst of humanity.

I'm always surprised how differently people read things.
 

Taraqual

Words words words
Validated User
A good point but I thought that being a Greek god was enough of a demonstration, since about 95% of myths show them as being like the worst of humanity.

I'm always surprised how differently people read things.
Even if you grew up on Greek myths (like I did), it can vary between "they're the worst" and "but these gods are cool." Like, Athena was always a good guy in my head, until I came across myths that weren't written about as much that showed her many instances of wrath and leading heroes into some pretty shitty situations.

Hecate was one I knew very little about except what was written about her in the D&D Deities and Demigods book. I had met a couple self-professed pagans who never hung out with other pagans that I knew of, and if they had opinions about trans people I never heard them. So not only was I clueless about trans people and their concerns in the first place, I didn't have any exposure to these problems. My first impression from the story was that Wanda "earned" the right to be seen as a woman from her sacrifice. Which was about as wrong-headed a reading as you can get, I suppose.

Over many years, I met and spoke with larger groups and learned about pagans and definitions of sexuality and gender and the last time I read A Game of You, about five or six years ago, it made a lot more sense. Then reading things here on RPG.net really brought home the issues. So while I think Gaiman made some missteps, I do credit him for giving this particular narrow-minded cishet guy from a small town a wider perspective on the world. But it's no longer the early '90s and I think we can tell a more sophisticated story that doesn't have a dead transwoman at the end of it.
 

Tyrmatfrage

Registered User
Validated User
That said, A Game of You, changed my very narrow view of the LGBT community at the time. It didn't made me an ally right away, but it challenged a few conceptions I had as a latino straight man that and help me eventually undo some prejudices that I didn't even consider as such then.
It's the same for me, A Game of You helped me understand the perspective of the LGBT community a lot better. When the moon goddess rejected Wanda I was infuriated, because while I'm cishet, I could understand and identify with having the identity you've made for yourself rejected by asshole authority figures.

If I were re-doing the story, I'd keep it largely the same but have Wanda survive. She can still have a near-brush experience with Death to validate her gender identity.
 
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