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The Turku School online

Jack Spencer

New member
From the FAQ:

Q: Then why is the Manifesto such an overkill?
A: To get attention and create discussion. Some have said that a more down-to-earth type of a manifesto would've succeeded better in this, but we chose to do it like this. I discuss how this worked in Foreword to the 3rd Edition and LARP manifesting.

Q: Aren't you kind of pretentious?
A: Yes. Want to make something of it?
Inn other words, the tone is specifically chosen to get people pissed off. Parts of it (Chapter IV IIRC, read this a few seconds ago) is admittedly heavily based on the Communist Manifesto. So the tone and strong wording should not be focused, as it just distracts from the actual content.
 

Mr. Analytical

Not Panicking
As a player I shall strive not to gain fame or glory, but to act out the character as well as possible according to the guidance given to me by the game master. Even if this means I have to spend the entire game alone in a closet without anyone ever finding out.
Oh this has got to be a joke! I'm calling BS on this right here and now.

1) What fame and glory? There's fame and glory to be had from roleplaying now?

2) the entire game in a closet without anyone finding out?

Players : "Where's Mr. Analytical?"
GM : "Dunno... he's not here. Doesn't matter, his character's in prison anyway"

*several hours pass*

GM : "The final guard drops dead, you open the cell and find Mr. Analytical's character chained to the wall"

*sound of me coughing as I tumble out of the cupboard*

GM : "What the hell were you doing in there?"
Me : "Playing my character"
 

atonal chaotic

Retired User
Fabrice G. said:
Well, I dig what they're aiming at....


After all, they don't force you to adopt the Turku view of things... You don't HAVE TO agree with them. They put their view on roleplaying, that's it.

After having seen (and paying part of) many groups who only enjoy light hearted, funny gaming, I comprehend what they're aiming at... Who said that rpg cannot be some kind of artform ?


Fabrice, maybe too serious...
Of course deep immersion isn't the only way to try and make roleplaying an art. A lot of folks consider Narrativism at least as artsy-fartsy pretensious as Turku, and it practically requires a third-person authorial perspective from all players.
 

Jack Spencer

New member
atonal chaotic said:
Of course deep immersion isn't the only way to try and make roleplaying an art. A lot of folks consider Narrativism at least as artsy-fartsy pretensious as Turku, and it practically requires a third-person authorial perspective from all players.
Yeah. A novel can be written in the first or third person and neither really makes the novel better or worse. Not by themselves, anyway. Which is why most RPG theory is taddle. They focus on one things that is supposed to make roleplaying a Good Time (tm) and more or less ignore everything else. Turku with it's eläytyminen. Narrativism with it's so-called premise. Truth is, it requires a concert of many elements, so focusing on one thing is never enough and a fool's errand.
 

Slushie Mandrake

Iʼll always remain alien
Validated User
I have allways kind of thought the deliberately offensive tone of Turku school is design choise to promote the ego of the writer, in stereotypical style of "Hey everybody look at me.", which is damn shame as the interesting tidbits don't get attention when the author just has to indulge in acting like such a drama-queen.

I mean, mister Pohjola if you reading this surely you must have noticed that your way of expression has detracted attention from your message.
 

Brand_Robins

Retired User
If this is satire, then it's one of the funniest things I've ever read.

If this is serious, then it's one of the funniest things I've ever read.
 

Fabrice G.

Registered User
Validated User
atonal chaotic said:
Of course deep immersion isn't the only way to try and make roleplaying an art. A lot of folks consider Narrativism at least as artsy-fartsy pretensious as Turku, and it practically requires a third-person authorial perspective from all players.

Oh, I know. I dig narativism too... Many games of Sorcerer did that to me ! :)

Still, what I don't get is why some people all get emotional as if it was going to wipe away their fun in rpg... "Fun", is a complex beast here. Can be very different from game to game for the same people.


Take care,

Fabrice
 

Revontuli

Retired User
MutieMoe said:
I mean, mister Pohjola if you reading this surely you must have noticed that your way of expression has detracted attention from your message.
Yes and no. There's a bunch of articles on that site, but the Manifesto seems to be the only one people read.

But yes, the style and tone have their problems. I admit this freely in the Foreword for the 3rd Edition published in 2003. That's why I put a bunch of other articles on the Turku School website, too. "Larpers do it ekstatikoi" and "Give me Jesus or give me Death" take the same ideas a bit further combining them with some Aristotelian concepts. "Autonomous Identities" is pretty close to my current lines of thinking about roleplaying. It will probably create some outrage, even though the style is strictly academic.

I assumed most people who would be interested in the curiosity value of the Turku Manifesto would know about it by now, and would occasionally want to link to it. That's why I mentioned it here in the first place. The later articles are what I think would make good reading even now.
 

jdrakeh

New member
Banned
Fabrice G. said:
Still, what I don't get is why some people all get emotional as if it was going to wipe away their fun in rpg...
Because, as some people have pointed out (and you yourself have admitted), the text of the manifesto is patently offensive. As Jack pointed out, while such gimmicks may draw attention to the manifesto, they also obscure any valid points contained therein.

When somebody goes to great lengths to proclaim their approach to roleplaying 'the one true way' and then devote a load of text to telling the reader why they're socially and mentally inferior to the author if the don't see things his way - it really pisses people off and makes the author sound like a complete asshole.

Most people don't care what complete assholes have to say, nor do they tend to be very polite when conversing with them. Truth is, you may not be a complete asshole (in fact, I don't think that you are, given your civil tone here), but the manifesto very much projects that image.
 

Slushie Mandrake

Iʼll always remain alien
Validated User
Fabrice G. said:
Oh, I know. I dig narativism too... Many games of Sorcerer did that to me ! :)

Still, what I don't get is why some people all get emotional as if it was going to wipe away their fun in rpg... "Fun", is a complex beast here. Can be very different from game to game for the same people.


Take care,

Fabrice
Agreed, but the provocative tone of the Pohjola's articles does not leave option for choise there is just absolutes, purely black and white nothing grey between,
althought there is not exactly bad wrong fun political officers that would drag anyone playing it "wrong" screaming in to the LARPer re-education camp. (At least outside Turku, man that city is strange, something should be done to prevent them from contaminating the tapwater and endangering our purity of essence.)

Most of the emotional responses actually boil down to question of self-indulgense vs. self-promotion in the presentation of the ideas.
 
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