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[turned into a Warhammer 40k thread] Alt-righters getting banned off Patreon

Count Dorku

Renegade librarian
Validated User
Is this now official Tau policy, or just a plan some of the Tau are considering?
It's a plan some of the Tau have adopted, but that the first group of Tau to gain enough data to even understand the question immediately start going "you know, those space Nazis who've been trying to kill us since they found out we existed might have a point" does not speak well of the situation going forward.
 

Petter Wäss

I am agape with fnords
Validated User
As kind of a Tau fan, this is one of my least favourite developments with the new lore. The Primaris stuff, I could take or leave (it's a little annoying when non-Imperial codexes have a sidebar on And This Is What They Think Of The Primaris, but they're a workable addition), but this one kind of pisses me off.

Like, I can see how we got there given the nature of the universe, but the interesting thing about the Tau is the question about whether they can retain their comparatively idealistic, optimistic there-is-a-better-way stance in the face of all the horrible things in the universe. The least interesting thing you could possibly do with that question is to answer it with "no, and fuck you for even momentarily entertaining the possibility that the answer could be yes, have the Imperium again but with grey skin this time", and that's the answer I get from having the Tau who've gotten the clearest glimpse of the cosmos instantly and irrevocably do a find-replace on Imperial policy and go from there.

I mean, this is the best edition I've played on a mechanical level, and most of the setting development has been pretty good, but I really do think that this was a mistake.
Absolutely agreed. But GW has a very long history and badly dropping the ball when it comes to Xenos.
I just did readthrough/fluff review of Vigilus over on Tumblr. It was not very positive.
 

Starcrash

Registered User
Validated User
They will be as soon as they can reverse-engineer a single Imperium starship's warp travel. They also have Human Psykers living among their subject races. It's only a matter of time until the Tau can travel the galaxy equally as well as the Imperium.
I thought it was access to Navigators that was the sticking point there. Without a Navigator, a ship has to make multiple short, shallow warp jumps, regularly taking readings in realspace and making adjustments. If you're talking about the Dark Imperium setting, post-Great Rift, even that kind of travel has become more hazardous.
 

Endless Rain

Member
Validated User
I thought it was access to Navigators that was the sticking point there. Without a Navigator, a ship has to make multiple short, shallow warp jumps, regularly taking readings in realspace and making adjustments. If you're talking about the Dark Imperium setting, post-Great Rift, even that kind of travel has become more hazardous.
Tau don't need navigators immediately. Once they have warp technology and normal Psykers, they can use blind warp jumps as a stepping stone to attack deeper into the Imperium and recruit any navigators that they capture. Once they get their own navigators, they'll be able to use the Astronomican itself to liberate weakly-defended worlds across the whole Imperium.
 

Starcrash

Registered User
Validated User
Tau came out after 2nd edition and are therefore still "new kids" to me, but are you saying they don't have warp drive?

<research occurs>

Huh. Still seems unclear whether they're going relativistic or if the use of the Warp is effectively letting them get FTL out of it. Anyway, regardless of their internal policies, do they want to poke the Imperium in that fashion? It feels... imprudent.
 

Petter Wäss

I am agape with fnords
Validated User
Tau came out after 2nd edition and are therefore still "new kids" to me, but are you saying they don't have warp drive?

<research occurs>

Huh. Still seems unclear whether they're going relativistic or if the use of the Warp is effectively letting them get FTL out of it. Anyway, regardless of their internal policies, do they want to poke the Imperium in that fashion? It feels... imprudent.
They're already at war with the Imperium on several fronts, both as aggressors and defenders.
Capturing a Navigator would by hard, but not impossible, especially if targeting civilian craft. That is assuming the T'au are aware of Navigators and their significance
 

Base Delta Zero

Registered User
Validated User
The Tau have had FTL since the Second Sphere Expansion, 'skipping' across the warp. They're slower than Imperial warp drives, but much safer and more reliable. They could, in theory, use it for long-range galactic travel, though it would take decades, but there's little reason to do so.

They recently developed proper deep-immersion drives with Gellar Field analogues that increased their speed by orders of magnitude (cutting a trip across the (Tau) Empire from 'months' to 'a week') but Holo-Aun fucked that up by (against the direct advice of the inventor) using it on the thousands of ships of the Fourth Sphere at once, thus blowing a hole in space and generally fucking things up. Then deciding, despite the fact the drive is still much more reliable than Imperial Warp drives (it's unclear if it's faster, but I suspect it's on par, at least) so long as you don't overload it with so many at once, that they weren't going to use that kind of drive anymore.
Fortunately(?) this bit of bungling created a permanent wormhole across the Damocles Gulf.

It's a plan some of the Tau have adopted, but that the first group of Tau to gain enough data to even understand the question immediately start going "you know, those space Nazis who've been trying to kill us since they found out we existed might have a point" does not speak well of the situation going forward.
It's a plan some of the Fourth Sphere Expansion fleet have come up with after spending years lost in the warp. Despite being, y'know, saved by said weird warp entity. It's also worth noting that after establishing contact, the rest of the Tau Empire/the Ethereal Council decidedly did not approve of this policy.


Capturing a Navigator would by hard, but not impossible, especially if targeting civilian craft. That is assuming the T'au are aware of Navigators and their significance
They could hardly not be - the crews of Imperial ships are aware of the significance of navigators, and they've captured a lot of Imperial ships. My understanding is that the Imperium has adopted a Cole Protocol-esque policy of incinerating any Navigators that might be captured.
However, the Deep Slipstream drive still doesn't require Navigators. And I suspect that they'll be averse to proper warp drives in any event - it's not like they've never encountered Warp Drives before, they could probably make them if they wanted. But they generally don't like to mess with the Warp if they don't have to, pretty much since the Medusa V campaign.
 

Petter Wäss

I am agape with fnords
Validated User
They could hardly not be - the crews of Imperial ships are aware of the significance of navigators, and they've captured a lot of Imperial ships. My understanding is that the Imperium has adopted a Cole Protocol-esque policy of incinerating any Navigators that might be captured.
However, the Deep Slipstream drive still doesn't require Navigators. And I suspect that they'll be averse to proper warp drives in any event - it's not like they've never encountered Warp Drives before, they could probably make them if they wanted. But they generally don't like to mess with the Warp if they don't have to, pretty much since the Medusa V campaign.
Other aiens have captured and used navigators, so as said, hard but not impossible
 

Eremite

Registered User
Validated User
Capturing a navigator, even a bunch hardly seems a solution to me. Want to make more? You'll struggle to reverse-engineer their (human-based) genetics, which is likely almost impossible given this a Dark Age of Tech thing and their genetics are notably unstable (hence all the mutation). I could accept the dark eldar, masters of genetic engineering, doing it, but while I have no doubt the tau have dabbled in such science, they're almost certainly not ready for that level. They only make navigators by breeding with other navigators, so you've got one navigator (and suffer lots of birth defects, etc), so a breeding programme is possible, but would take centuries to show divdends.

Otherwise, you've got one who can pilot one vessel... and they may not wish to. They may do it to avoid being killed, sure, but they're likely to want to get back to the Imperium. They're incredibly unlikely to defect to the Tay Empire because they're mostly loyal to their House and despite being feared and distrusted, they do live lives of luxury and priviledge in the Imperium.

While we know you can capture Navigators and make them work for you, they're difficult captives given they can kill you with a look, need that deadly weapon to pilot ships (and once they're doing so, well, they could kill you all effortlessly or just ruin your trip).

The Tau Empire could probably get a bunch and even get some to go along with it, but even if cleverly utilised (which, to be fair to to tau and assuming a writer who knows what they're doing, they would) this small number of navigators probably isn't a game changer.
 
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