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🎨 Creative Twilight Colony - D&D meets Blue Planet

drrockso20

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Validated User
#81
An interesting overview. After I finish the SRD, I should probably start that GraphViz chart.

One note, though: Xorn don't quite fit since they are not "natural" creatures - they are elementals. And I don't want to change "monster type" unless I really, really need to.

Though Xorn are high on a list of "extraplanar creatures likely to show up", since they have such an alien body structure.
Xorn are kinda odd for Elementals, as they definitely appear to have organic bodies, could always justify it by including a note that while for gameplay reasons they're Elementals(since you've mentioned you don't want to be changing types around unless absolutely necessary), in setting they're one of the other types in terms of origin and still considered as such for taxonomic reasons(kinda like how Azer are Dwarves that have become elemental in nature)
 

Jürgen Hubert

aka "Herr Doktor Hubert"
Validated User
#82
A good point. I don't have any clear vision for this setting's cosmology, but the effect of planar influences/"manifest zones" can certainly have an influence on creature evolution.

As for extraplanar races, while Demons and Devils are generally too "humanoid", Pathfinder has plenty that should be suitable. On the top of my mind, Aeons and Qlippoth might be a good fit.
 

Evil Midnight Lurker

What Lurks at Midnight
Validated User
#83
A good point. I don't have any clear vision for this setting's cosmology, but the effect of planar influences/"manifest zones" can certainly have an influence on creature evolution.

As for extraplanar races, while Demons and Devils are generally too "humanoid", Pathfinder has plenty that should be suitable. On the top of my mind, Aeons and Qlippoth might be a good fit.
To outsiders, shouldn't this be just another world on the Prime? I could see them adopting different default forms, but a demon's a demon, no matter the bauplan.
 

Jürgen Hubert

aka "Herr Doktor Hubert"
Validated User
#84
To outsiders, shouldn't this be just another world on the Prime? I could see them adopting different default forms, but a demon's a demon, no matter the bauplan.
To my mind the problem here is that, beyond their humanoid depictions, they represent rather humanoid conceptions of sins, taboos, and personality traits. I mean, take the succubus - its depiction in mythology arose from very human notions of illicit sex and "sexual purity" that it preys on. While it might be interesting to contemplate alien notions of "sin" and work out how demons and devils fit into this scheme, I think it's more interesting to start out with outsiders that are already fundamentally more alien than the demons and devils of D&D lore.

And on the plus side, we get to have the "demons are displacing the qlippoth on their native plane" as an ongoing plot in this setting!
 

s/LaSH

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RPGnet Member
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#85
It may prove useful to move away from Great Wheel cosmology in favour of one of the other standards, here.

For example, the BECMI cosmology would be nicely flexible. You have the Inner Planes, which are the Prime Material, the Ethereal, and the four Elementals; and the Outer Planes, which include the Astral and any number of bounded domains embedded in it. All the planes except those domains are unbounded. In fact, they're so large that they all have galaxies in them. There's an Immortal adventure where the PCs go visit an elemental hierarch, who lives on Elemental Earth at the heart of a planet which they have to figure out how to access. (I think. I've got the adventure somewhere, but it's in a box.)

Personally, I'd be tempted to replace the four classical Elemental planes with the World Axis version, the Elemental Chaos, just because it's more flexible. Also less cultural structure; the Greek system has Opinions, and I like the idea that those aren't true on the New World. I wouldn't take the rest of the World Axis, because it's shaped by the actions of gods and titans in a very cool but far too personal way for this alien world to care about.

The advantage of this system is that the domains embedded in the Astral do not form an intrinsic alignment system. They're just areas, probably dominated by something, but you don't need to balance them or use them to justify cultural concepts. Maybe they're all dominated by qlippoth here, which gives the weird situation of refugee angels teaming up with refugee demons to defeat the locals. Or maybe there are other outsiders at work too. I don't know what interesting things are available.

In retrospect, you might get the right feel from a cosmos that is just a stack:

Begin: Elemental Chaos
-> Material Plane
-> Ether
-> Astral Plane
-> Domains

Notable absences: Feywild, Shadowfell. I'd be tempted to shift both of their functions into the Ether, to give it more flavour. There probably aren't Fey in the New World, but there might be something else in the ethereal niche.

Notable realisation: what the heck do druids do in the New World?
 

Evil Midnight Lurker

What Lurks at Midnight
Validated User
#86
Okay, then...

...You mentioned going through Pathfinder? I'm not sure how the OGL interacts with user-submitted SRD content, but if you plan to make use of qlippoth you might want to take a look at Epic Meepo's Sephirah. Be not afraid.
 

drrockso20

Registered User
Validated User
#87
To my mind the problem here is that, beyond their humanoid depictions, they represent rather humanoid conceptions of sins, taboos, and personality traits. I mean, take the succubus - its depiction in mythology arose from very human notions of illicit sex and "sexual purity" that it preys on. While it might be interesting to contemplate alien notions of "sin" and work out how demons and devils fit into this scheme, I think it's more interesting to start out with outsiders that are already fundamentally more alien than the demons and devils of D&D lore.

And on the plus side, we get to have the "demons are displacing the qlippoth on their native plane" as an ongoing plot in this setting!
honestly I figure that you could easily have some Demons/Devils be aligned towards either the New World or the Old World in terms of what their form is derived from, like the Balor is definitely one that takes it's form from Old World influences, while something like the Yochlol took it's influence from New World life

basically the Demons and Devils didn't make much of a distinction between the two mortal planes until very recently when the countdown to the end of the Old World began, now they're beginning to shift their focus over to primarily the New World

also if we're discussing alternate cosmologies, I'd say a modified form of the 4e cosmology would probably work best
 

Jürgen Hubert

aka "Herr Doktor Hubert"
Validated User
#88
Okay, then...

...You mentioned going through Pathfinder? I'm not sure how the OGL interacts with user-submitted SRD content, but if you plan to make use of qlippoth you might want to take a look at Epic Meepo's Sephirah. Be not afraid.
I'd be careful about such content, since I don't know the OGL status of such content. Also, the goal of this exercise is to pick the truly iconic monsters of D&D and Pathfinder, and give them a new perspective.
 

Jürgen Hubert

aka "Herr Doktor Hubert"
Validated User
#90
I haven't given much thought to the new world's cosmology, other than it shouls be fairly different from the one of the old world. I plan to revisit this topic once I have a firmer grasp on the main sapient inhabitants.

Notable realisation: what the heck do druids do in the New World?
Some aggressively try to import Old World life forms so that they can supplant the native life forms, others seem to balance the two, and others consider the whole colonization effort a travesty and operate as terrorists.
 
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