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[Unknown Armies] Alex Abel's Archetype?

Bicorn

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I don't think it's canonically stated in any sourcebook, so what are your favorite theories on what actual Archetype Alex Abel almost ascended as?
 

Bailywolf

bwakbwak
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As I understand it, Abel himself doesn't know, as he wasn't consciously channeling one when he dropped his keys.

One theory I recall is something to do with money and having lots of it and being powerful... a Plutocrat or something. I think the cosmic dichotomy rate used to describe how he got screwed out of it by the Naked Goddess was something like BLACK MAN MONEY vs WHITE WOMAN SEX.

-B
 

Foyle

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I don't think it's canonically stated in any sourcebook, so what are your favorite theories on what actual Archetype Alex Abel almost ascended as?
A variation on the Women Everyone Can Have But You aka the Naked Goddess.

With Abel's wealth and success combined with his outsider status one of the ideas is The Man Who has Everything You Want But Wouldn't Want to Be
 

Rolzup

Dinoczar
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I don't think it's canonically stated in any sourcebook, so what are your favorite theories on what actual Archetype Alex Abel almost ascended as?
The most common suggestion I've read is "The Man Who Succeeded Instead of You". As opposed to the "Woman Everyone Can Have But You", the NG's supposed archetype.
 

Dan Fitzpatrick

Retired User
I am a fan of The Algerian Hero as his almost ascended archetype. Especially because the first time I heard that theory I had no idea what The Algerian
Hero was so I pictured him gunning down French Legionnairres during the Rif War :eek:
 

San Dee Jota

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* The Poor King - the man who has it all, and realizes he has nothing. Alex had reached a point in his life where he had raised above his origins, had anything he wanted, and was immensely powerful. Perhaps he knew, on some subconcious level, that despite having all of his wealth and power, he was still truly no better off than he was before. He would still grow old, sick, and die, the same as everyone else. The Poor King realizes this, seeks to escape it. In UA, Warren Buffet and Bill Gates are likely in a death-lock struggle to seize this Archetype, while Abel has lost sight of his original goals and focuses instead on the occult underground. The connection to the Naked Goddess? His first introduction to the occult was through her, and thus he (erroneously) assumed she was somehow tied to his failed archetype bid.

* The Slave of the Public - A slave can only serve one master, but there are those who find themselves serving many. Abel worked hard to raise above his origins, and yet he found himself beholden to shareholders, the needs of his financial empire, congressmen, and others. By working within the system, he became ensnared by it. The Naked Goddess stole the archetype by embracing her servitude; she was a whore for everyone who ever watched her work. That she received payment was secondary at best; she would have done what she did anyway. By refusing to be anyone's servant to the same extent, the Stratosphere rejected Abel and went with the Naked Goddess instead.

* The Hungry Man - Abel had to hunger for ascension before he could even hope to acheive it. His Archetype is the Hungry Man, the man who will build a kingdom up, just to sacrifice it later for ascension into an unknown state of being. Only those who have witnessed an ascension, and have a kingdom to throw away, are eligible for this path. Abel was on the path, the moment he realized ascension was possible, and lost it the moment he chose to understand it rather than blindly pursue it.

Just some random, likely incoherent, thoughts.
 

Bicorn

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Do you think the keys had any specific significance?

Oh, and a tangentially connected matter I'm not too sure about. How closely related can Archetypes be and still coexist separately? Can you, for example, have separate Warrior and Soldier archetypes, or would creating a Soldier archetype require the ousting of Warrior?
 

Insect King

Mechristopheles!
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Abel would be advancing as the Entrepeneur, maybe as a corporate revision of the Merchant.

The keys were just catalysts. Abel would have felt the same impressions looking at half-done crosswords or ant-trails on the wall.

C.
 

Icon

Old enough to know better
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Wasn't Dermott Arkane responsible for Alex Abel's failure to ascend?

Assuming Abel wasn't about to ascend as The Messenger and so it wasn't sabotage of a rival on the part of Arkane then I would imagine that interfering with Abel's ascension was part of some symbolic act with which to propel Arkane's advancement.

While it may be possible that interfering with any ascension would do, it may also be that the archtype being interferred with has symbolic meaning. Are there any suggestions which would fit such an outline?
 

Foyle

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Wasn't Dermott Arkane responsible for Alex Abel's failure to ascend?

Assuming Abel wasn't about to ascend as The Messenger and so it wasn't sabotage of a rival on the part of Arkane then I would imagine that interfering with Abel's ascension was part of some symbolic act with which to propel Arkane's advancement.

While it may be possible that interfering with any ascension would do, it may also be that the archtype being interferred with has symbolic meaning. Are there any suggestions which would fit such an outline?
I believe its set out in To Go

Dermott is trying to ascend as the postmodern messenger - communicating doubt and relativeness as opposed to the facts and confirmation that the current Messenger embodies. His intervention in Abel's ascension was part of this, causing a cosmically significant change that forced Abel to re-consider his life and achievements and waver on his path to ascension. I think, although its not spelt out that Dermott used his messenger channel to get the message through. This was also Dermotts symbolic challenge to the current messenger. I don't think there was anything specific in the type of archetype that Abel would become, simply messing with an ascension that was almost 100% certain was symbolic enough. The incident with the keys was the moment at which he went off the path - presumably also the moment that the Naked Goddess ascended?
 
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