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Vampire the Masquerade 5th edition: Is the content blasphemous from a Christian perspective?

Nicholas Carter

Registered User
Validated User
That game reads to me like a hostile parody of my religion. Not to threadcrap, I won't go into detail. Also YMMV--I know there are people who like it.
If a person chose to re-contextualize the existing Vampire lore in a more Christ-respecting way, it would probably have to go like this:
The fundamental Vampire experience is that of sinners whose moral failures manifest physically in their bodies. Many of these failures appear to be boons (with the feature of further entrapping the vampire into sin and worldliness) and many are just obvious curses, and above and beyond all else every vampires' inborn moral sentiment has been crippled by their transformation.
In a game themed around vampire-christian issues, the non-blasphemous interpretation of these acts and ideologies is that they are manifestations of pride: that vampires would invent an entire false history, an entire system of idolatry, to avoid admitting to the fundamentally inadequate nature of their moral existence. And overcoming the temptation of these organizations to justify sin would be the narrative function of their inclusion.
 

FrivYeti

Yeti On The Lam!
RPGnet Member
Validated User
If a person chose to re-contextualize the existing Vampire lore in a more Christ-respecting way, it would probably have to go like this:
The fundamental Vampire experience is that of sinners whose moral failures manifest physically in their bodies. Many of these failures appear to be boons (with the feature of further entrapping the vampire into sin and worldliness) and many are just obvious curses, and above and beyond all else every vampires' inborn moral sentiment has been crippled by their transformation.
In a game themed around vampire-christian issues, the non-blasphemous interpretation of these acts and ideologies is that they are manifestations of pride: that vampires would invent an entire false history, an entire system of idolatry, to avoid admitting to the fundamentally inadequate nature of their moral existence. And overcoming the temptation of these organizations to justify sin would be the narrative function of their inclusion.
While this is pretty neat, it's worth noting that Cerulean Lion was referring to In Nomine as a hostile parody of Christianity, not Vampire.
 

Cerulean Lion

Social Justice Christian
Validated User
If a person chose to re-contextualize the existing Vampire lore in a more Christ-respecting way, it would probably have to go like this:
The fundamental Vampire experience is that of sinners whose moral failures manifest physically in their bodies. Many of these failures appear to be boons (with the feature of further entrapping the vampire into sin and worldliness) and many are just obvious curses, and above and beyond all else every vampires' inborn moral sentiment has been crippled by their transformation.
In a game themed around vampire-christian issues, the non-blasphemous interpretation of these acts and ideologies is that they are manifestations of pride: that vampires would invent an entire false history, an entire system of idolatry, to avoid admitting to the fundamentally inadequate nature of their moral existence. And overcoming the temptation of these organizations to justify sin would be the narrative function of their inclusion.
That's an interesting take on it, Nicholas. :) I can see some people using it to have fun.
To avoid misunderstandings, though:

I was talking about In Nomine, not about Vampire. I'm fine with Vampire as a game in general, and in fact I've played it and had fun with it. :)
I've also had fun with Werewolf and Changeling, and I'm currently GMing a PbP of Changeling on this forum. Three years old and running. :)
[MENTION=148330]FrivYeti[/MENTION]: Indeed, and thank you. :) Still Nicholas did come up with an interesting new slant on Vampire.
 
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Black Flag

Dweller on the Threshold
Validated User
I have pages of my own errata divided into jr high humor or bad rule layout. If I was a line editor for this it would not have shipped its got as many mistakes as SR5 and a layout to rival WFRP 3e, which makes introducing the game difficult.

Also probably won’t impact sales much as I’m pretty convinced most gamers gloss over rather than read in depth.
I'll grant you the errors, certainly. They decided they had to get it out by GenCon, and while that did reportedly result in a whole bunch of sales right there, it meant the book was printed while still in need of another editorial pass. The PDF was recently updated, and some of the egregious mistakes were fixed, but some misspellings and such remain, and the PDF bookmarks are still an utter mess. I had to redo them myself, which wasn't hard, but I shouldn't have had to do it.

The rest is arguable as a matter of taste, but I don't think anyone can deny the initial errata have been quite numerous for anything more than a preview PDF.
 

AliasiSudonomo

Trying to be a bird
Validated User
That game reads to me like a hostile parody of my religion. Not to threadcrap, I won't go into detail. Also YMMV--I know there are people who like it.
The French original was even more so, being a reaction to the way French culture and Catholicism have historically interacted. I found the SJG version to be more along the lines of pop-culture treatments on the subject and generically less trying to be offensive. I mean, it allows for misguided angels and not-too-evil demons but that isn't an uncommon fictional conceit. IN also takes a universalist approach, but then, I'm UU-ish myself. If you'd care to make a seperate thread or have aired your views previously I'd be interested.

As for Vampire... one is playing Vampires. "Blasphemous" is sort of built in to the concept, I'd think, even if one is playing an involuntary one who tries to keep touch with their humanity.
 
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Cerulean Lion

Social Justice Christian
Validated User
The French original was even more so, being a reaction to the way French culture and Catholicism have historically interacted. I found the SJG version to be more along the lines of pop-culture treatments on the subject and generically less trying to be offensive. I mean, it allows for misguided angels and not-too-evil demons but that isn't an uncommon fictional conceit. IN also takes a universalist approach, but then, I'm UU-ish myself. If you'd care to make a seperate thread or have aired your views previously I'd be interested.

As for Vampire... one is playing Vampires. "Blasphemous" is sort of built in to the concept, I'd think, even if one is playing an involuntary one who tries to keep touch with their humanity.

I don't think I've spoken about In Nomine before. As for Vampire, I've never considered the idea of Vampire PCs blasphemous. Of course there is potential to play it that way but then D&D gives you the potential to play Chaotic Evil.
 

RSANFORD

Registered User
Validated User
If a person chose to re-contextualize the existing Vampire lore in a more Christ-respecting way, it would probably have to go like this:
The fundamental Vampire experience is that of sinners whose moral failures manifest physically in their bodies. Many of these failures appear to be boons (with the feature of further entrapping the vampire into sin and worldliness) and many are just obvious curses, and above and beyond all else every vampires' inborn moral sentiment has been crippled by their transformation.
In a game themed around vampire-christian issues, the non-blasphemous interpretation of these acts and ideologies is that they are manifestations of pride: that vampires would invent an entire false history, an entire system of idolatry, to avoid admitting to the fundamentally inadequate nature of their moral existence. And overcoming the temptation of these organizations to justify sin would be the narrative function of their inclusion.
I love it! Sounds right to me!
 

Black Flag

Dweller on the Threshold
Validated User
It’s worth noting that you don’t even have to change the game to call into question the mythologies of the vampires. Even the myth of Caine is far from a literal certainty. All we know for sure is that 1) the infection gets weaker over subsequent generations, which suggests some patient(s) zero at some point in the distant past; 2) the clans differentiated thousands of years ago, and all evidence suggests you can trace that distinction back to a single “parent” for each; 3) such unfathomably ancient vampires sleep for ages and can no longer subsist on mortal blood, suggesting that their awakening could be apocalyptic. Beyond that everything is negotiable.

It’s also true you can take the Antediluvians at face value without accepting Caine or Lilith, as there’s considerably less evidence for them, despite their looming large in the culture.
 
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