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[Vampire: The Masquerade] 5th Edition

Catulle

Black Rabbit of Inle
Validated User
Re: Vampire, 5th Edition

A bunch of particular choices aside, I suspect they'll more or less succeed at creating their own new edition of Vampire, very nearly the way they want it.

I am less sure that several of the traits displayed here - rushing to market, avoiding retcons or resets of the canon (religiously so!), the apparent overriding influence of a core swedish brain trust over their (super qualified!) contractors - bode at all well for their transmedia aspirations. The RPG will do fine. The video game(s) will probably be idiosyncratic but neat. It's the fiction and visual media and so forth that seems likely to struggle.
Has any "transmedia" property ever taken off since the phrase was coined? Marvel/Disney predate it, maybe Borderlands? Warcraft? Certainly nothing that started life as an RPG, though?
 

Malckuss

Game Design Hobbyist
Validated User
Re: Vampire, 5th Edition

It would be nice if the webpage actually let you download the playtest instead of leading to a blank page.
 

ihatevnecks

Registered User
Validated User
Re: Vampire, 5th Edition

That is a very good point. Although I think no matter the future of nuWW and their products, acknowledging "this good idea wasn't actually our idea at all, we merely took it and ran with it; original design..." wouldn't tarnish Jenna in any form. Still, asking for her opinion would be prudent; for all we know, someone at nuWW may have done so and what we see is the result of that conversation.
I have no idea if he asked permission or anything of the sort beforehand, but Ken Hite had no issue publicly acknowledging the inspiration and linking it to Jenna on Twitter.

https://twitter.com/kennethhite/status/1012478344749834240

1012478344749834240
 
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PST

Registered User
Validated User
Re: Vampire, 5th Edition

Are you sure on that? Unmasqued was using Lore Sheets and they ran from 2002 - 2011. Omega LRP in the UK was definitely using them and they ran from 1998-2003. I think they're a pretty standard thing in LARP. I haven't read WoTG though, so it's possible they're used in a specific way they weren't used previously.
Omega's lore sheets, and the ones in Vampire/WOTG etc. are totally different.

Omega's sheet that allowed you to crosscheck a code on an item and if you had the right sheet for that item, you could find out what the item was without speaking to a ref (also some other OOC info about that skill, such as resources it used and so on).

To quote from a review of WotG

Loresheets present first a story or information about the setting element it refers to. For example, the Creation Myth loresheet starts with the actual myth. Then players are presented with a number of advantages that they can choose to purchase with additional Destiny Points. These advantages provide either bonuses, special abilities, access to certain kung-fu techniques or plot control.

That's right - players can buy future plot developments. This is a great little innovation because not only do loresheets allow players to learn the setting as they play the game, it also allows them to place their characters firmly in the storyline of the game, as well as showing the GM/Wulin Sage what each player personally wants to get out of the game.
 
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Vox Orbis

I've Always Been Here
Validated User
Re: Vampire, 5th Edition

I have no idea if he asked permission or anything of the sort beforehand, but Ken Hite had no issue publicly acknowledging the inspiration and linking it to Jenna on Twitter.

https://twitter.com/kennethhite/status/1012478344749834240

[FONT=&]1012478344749834240[/FONT]
(Laughs at self) Of course he did, on Twitter, where I even follow him. I totally missed that! Not surprised, really. Ah, well, hope Jenna's name ends up credited in the book is all. But he did credit where credit is due!
 

Devil's Avocado

Registered User
Validated User
Re: Vampire, 5th Edition

Omega's lore sheets, and the ones in Vampire/WOTG etc. are totally different.

Omega's sheet that allowed you to crosscheck a code on an item and if you had the right sheet for that item, you could find out what the item was without speaking to a ref (also some other OOC info about that skill, such as resources it used and so on).

To quote from a review of WotG
Thanks. Yes, those do sound completely different then. Especially the "buy future plot developments" part. That strikes me as the innovation that differentiates it from all the other uses.
 

theliel

Fan of Many Things
RPGnet Member
Validated User
Re: Vampire, 5th Edition

*waves*

That's actually a really appealing combination, given my feeling that the NWoD mechanics have been generally going backwards re my preferences.

And, please, "very Requiem" as if that game wasn't founded on Masquerade to begin with. I'm all for dialectic improvement on both fronts: we can only benefit!
Requiem was a deconstruction of Masquerade. It was designed to showcase the problems of playing the assumptions of Masquerade straight, and then comment how they were dumb, boring and poor decisions for a gameline, right down to Justin talking all sorts of mad shit about metaplot at the Dragon*Con 2k4 panel.

The core features that the people who rejected Requiem loved, according to the MES/Teh Cam's general research, were*
1) the lack of metaplot
2) Lack of signature NPCs
3) Focus on night-to-night survival instead of vampiric politics - city, regional, national, and global scale
4) removal of generation

V5 seems to be a very street level game. Batman Begins, if we want to go with superhero movies, or Netflix's offerings: Daredevil, Luke Cage - while the primary audience for Masquerade wanted something more grand in scope closer to the Marvel movies, particularly Winter Soldier, Iron Man, Dr. Strange.
I'm not denying that there are still a large number of people who played at the street level, but most of the fans in my area were really into that millennium spanning global conspiracy, even if they played at the street or city level with occasional fanservice to the larger plot.

Vykos doesn't fit well with the current theme & mood of the game. Lucita doesn't even play well, or anyone doing globe trotting.
The Sabbat, arguably the most popular faction of the setting, is functionally gone. Fucked off the Asia to fight the elders, along with the Immortal Elder Things running the Deep Webb of Conspiracies that was The Jyhad. That really just kinda crippled the Camarilla's schtick.
That leaves the Anarchs, who were originally rebelling against the Cam w/out joining the Sabbat.

Hey look! A callback to V1! Except...there's not really much of The Cam to rebel against. In V1 the Cam were ever present, controlling everything, and not followign their arcane, unfair, and unevenly applied rules would get you killed real quick. Now they're far off distant masters who may or may not do something to you. That bad thing could very well just be another random vampire. Or the Second Inquisition.

I guess the Anarch's are a mutual aid society that's less exclusive than The Cam? That's...not a strong identity for a player faction. A Grande Coterie isn't a bad idea, per se, but the Anarchs aren't even rising to the level of 1E Requiem Carthian Movement.

*It's been awhile since I've had access to the polls, forgive the lack of hard numbers and the butchered phrasing. There may be errors from my memory being faulty as fuck.

As far as the mechanics, and you thinking Requiem has drifted away from what you like, that's a pretty odd statement since about 50-60% of V5 is pure Requiem 2.0.

Has any "transmedia" property ever taken off since the phrase was coined? Marvel/Disney predate it, maybe Borderlands? Warcraft? Certainly nothing that started life as an RPG, though?
The Expanse, technically. It was never a published RPG though.
Same with Corvus Belli's Infinity. It was designed to be an RPG, there was no money in making RPGs, so they made a minis game instead.

The closest I can think of is SyFy's Defiance, while the game was strong as a BBB or A video game, the show went from an OK first season into a strong second season right into "We're going to focus on the characters everyone no one loves who's stories have all been resolved, instead of our breakout characters and personalities" and promptly got canned.

So the answer you're looking for is "No". No one has.
 
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Wild_Archon

Registered User
Validated User
Re: Vampire, 5th Edition

Even more the problem is that you are forcing the fan base to jump to a ship they never wanted to jump in.
People who wanted to have this kind of changes in the setting have already jumped at the time of Vampire the Requiem, which by the way is a very good game, but it was not what many players wanted; that's one of the reason the V20 had such a success: because there is still a lot of people who are simply no interested in the kind of setting that Chronicles of Darkness has to offer.

By making The Masquerade something that never was you are trying to force players to adapt to something they never signed for, exploiting at the same time the more powerful brand that the Masquerade ever was, compared to Requiem.
This is somewhat a situation similar to what happened to mage after the Avatar Storm: the whole setting blow up, main characters were gone, the main theme was changed and so on. Mage Revised was by all means a different game from Mage 2nd Edition, and was probably the source of the biggest split in the fandom that has ever hit a White Wolf game.

The difference is that at the time there was not an alternative, Revised was not forcing anyone to adapt to a change that was no accepted before. It was a genuine new course, maybe worse, maybe better, but it was "honest".

V5 on the other hands is somewhat forcing you to accept something that has an alternative. You don't like Requiem? Ok, you play Masquerade. Now it's like if they are saying "you know what? No, you are playing it wrong, Requiem setting is better, you must adapt to it, like it or not, doesn't matter if there is an alternative, that we could expand".

Now,you could argue that you could just not playing the V5 and stick to V20 or Revised or whatever, but you know that it's not that simple, because somehow you are forced out from something that you liked, even when there was no need for it.
 

Michael K

Social Justice Dragon
Validated User
Re: Vampire, 5th Edition

Now,you could argue that you could just not playing the V5 and stick to V20 or Revised or whatever, but you know that it's not that simple, because somehow you are forced out from something that you liked, even when there was no need for it.
In what way does the existence of V5 force anybody out of V20 or even earlier editions?

I suspect that there is a distinct possibility that eventually support for the *20 lines dry up or nuWW terminate the license, but for the moment V5 does not impact past editions. If there is a mass movement to abandon V20 for V5 from players, that is the life cycle of games. Not that I currently expect such to happen, but we will see.

Don't get me wrong, I have a long list of things that will permanently preclude me from ever being a nuWW customer, but this claim seems unfounded.
 
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Wild_Archon

Registered User
Validated User
Re: Vampire, 5th Edition

V20 lines has been closed to make space for V5. There will never been any more V20 books.

This is from Matthew Dawkins

Onyx Path will not be producing further V20 products, but the other 20th Anniversary lines will continue until further notice.
So yes, I have been forced out.
 
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