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[Where I read] AD&D First Edition

Lars Dangly

Registered User
Validated User
Also, even though the Monster Manual was nominally a DM's book, I didn't know anyone who didn't own it. Maybe because it was the first really excellent hard-cover gaming book. You were just not a legitimate gamer if you didn't have it on your shelf. Actually, I would apply pretty much the same litmus test today...
 

Piestrio

*May Contain Multitudes*
Validated User
3rd edition is where you first started to see the attitude that if it's put out by WotC, it's allowed, regardless of what the DM thinks. The player tantrums about not being allowed to use something that is in an official book really seemed to take off around 3e.
One of my most memorable "WTF?" moments on RPGnet was two people arguing with me that there was no cultural pressure in 3.x to allow non-core books while at the same time, the same two people, in the same thread, where berating another poster for being an awful jack-booted DM for not allowing non-core books in her game.

Both with equal vehemence.
 

Sablewyvern

Ikari Warrior
Validated User
Also, even though the Monster Manual was nominally a DM's book, I didn't know anyone who didn't own it. Maybe because it was the first really excellent hard-cover gaming book. You were just not a legitimate gamer if you didn't have it on your shelf. Actually, I would apply pretty much the same litmus test today...
I'm not sure the MM was "nominally a DM's book." The PHB is full of "refer to pXX in the ADVANCED DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS MONSTER MANUAL".
 

Tom McCambley

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Validated User
Really? Is "full of" possibly an exaggeration? Because I don't remember that at all.
Off the top of my head, I believe there were references in the PC races, and some of the spell descriptions (such as find Familiar, and the like.) Call it two handfuls. :D
 

Sablewyvern

Ikari Warrior
Validated User
Really? Is "full of" possibly an exaggeration? Because I don't remember that at all.
A quick count indicates that the reader is referred to the monster manual 17 times in the PHB (that excludes the times the MM is simply mentioned). That's about once every eight pages on average; whether or not you consider that "full of" will be a matter of interpretation, I guess.
 

vectner

Registered User
Validated User
The MM was written first and as such was the book to reference. I find it interesting that they were able to exclude any reference to OD&D material, I think Chainmail was mentioned but that's it.
 

vultureboy

Eatin' the eyes first
Validated User
Well, I feel I need to do an update of sorts before I let this thread totally languish...

Typical Inhabitants

Here again, I get rankled, another section that really should be somewhere else, like farther on in the City/Town Encounters section. A quick note that “normal folk” will not be fighters, clerics, thieves, etc. What follows is a table breakdown classifying folk by sedentary / active / laboring and by male / female. Then it gives a likely hit point spread, and combat ability score for each. While I know it is not PC to separate out the sexes for differentiation, I do think failing to acknowledge there is a strength difference between men and women is moronic. For instance, the chart makes it clear that a laboring female will have more HPs and combat ability than a sedentary male. I also should point out, that consulting this chart, one can see that the “average” person has anywhere from 1 – 7 hps. This means the “average” person can easily be dispatched with a dagger ( 1d4 ). For those familiar with OD&D to BECMI, you’ll know that the base damage is 1d6, and weapon damage only came in if you were using the Optional Variable Weapon Damage Rule. So if you did 1d6 with any weapon period, you stood a pretty good chance of killing an “average” person outright.


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Social Class and Rank in Advanced Dungeons & Dragons

Whew, is this a long bit of Gygaxian prose!
 
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