• The Infractions Forum is available for public view. Please note that if you have been suspended you will need to open a private/incognito browser window to view it.

Where I Read: Worm

Glassware

Registered User
Validated User
It kind of is, but in the sense that Regent is given an out by the author (too young, raised by Heartbreaker, stops being horrible as soon as he gets to make choices for himself) whereas Sophia is given and has no extenuating circumstances.
Well, except that she is, like all first-generation parahumans, traumatized to all hell and coping really badly. Her mentality come from somewhere, after all.
 

St.Just

Lacking all conviction
Validated User
It just feels too much like... and I apologize for the TVtropesism... protagonist centered morality for my tastes. Regent is fun to be around, and he's the protagonist's friend, so he gets a pass. Sophia isn't, so she doesn't.
If you'd prefer an alternate set of jargon, I think the technical term is Ludonarrative Dissonance.
It kind of is, but in the sense that Regent is given an out by the author (too young, raised by Heartbreaker, stops being horrible as soon as he gets to make choices for himself) whereas Sophia is given and has no extenuating circumstances.
There's also the fact that "on-screen" the only people Alec seriously fucks with are Shatterbird (who's probably in the running with Bonesaw for most kills while in Brockton Bay) and Sophia. Whereas Sophia..even ignoring Taylor, the only reason she doesn't physically beat a grieving twelve year old is because she's being recorded, and she's trying to cure Taylor's throat when she's abducted. This makes it a lot easier to root for him then her.
 

Axiomatic

I mix a coat
RPGnet Member
Validated User
You know, given the choice between Ludonarrative Dissonance and Protagonist Centered Morality, I think I'd go for Protagonist Centered Morality.
 

Law Orc

Quasi-Possum
Staff member
Moderator
RPGnet Member
Validated User
You know, given the choice between Ludonarrative Dissonance and Protagonist Centered Morality, I think I'd go for Protagonist Centered Morality.
You're not the only one.

Edit: For one thing, how does "Ludonarrative" even make sense when a narrative is involved, but no games are?
 
Last edited:

Sanctaphrax

Registred User
Validated User
I don't think Regent benefits too much from protagonist centred morality. People are aware that he's terrible.

Tattletale, on the other hand...

There's also the fact that "on-screen" the only people Alec seriously fucks with are Shatterbird (who's probably in the running with Bonesaw for most kills while in Brockton Bay)...
Meh. They're both amateurs compared to Leviathan.

Then again, everyone is. He did much more damage in his brief rampage then the Nine did in their entire stay, did it against much (much) stronger opposition, and left in much better shape.
 

Noliar

Registered User
Validated User
At the time of the story Sophia is a worse person than Alec whatever their respective pasts. Mock execution by suicide is at least as cruel as the locker incident but it's a stand-out event against a background of slacking off playing X-box* while the locker incident is one peak of inventive nastiness in a sustained pattern of bullying and brutality whenever she has the opportunity. This despite Alec keeping nominally far worse company. Nonetheless she too is a child with trauma in her past and a passenger in her head.

The failure of the authorities in her case was not a failure of punishment but of monitoring and containment. Probation and then juvie were appropriate responses but juvie should have come months earlier. Which is not to say I didn't hate her - I did - she's horrible.

*I'm considering their professional activities a wash.

Leviathan is old enough to know better, Behemoth is just a thug but the Smurf is misunderstood. She's the real victim here.:eek:
 
Last edited:

Jim Lee

New member
Banned
Pretty much. Alec has absolute horror in his past, but by the time he's part of the Undersiders, he's not going out at night and murdering people. See also, Sophia Hess/Shadow Stalker.
 

Alathon

4d6+27
It just feels too much like... and I apologize for the TVtropesism... protagonist centered morality for my tastes. Regent is fun to be around, and he's the protagonist's friend, so he gets a pass. Sophia isn't, so she doesn't.
People give Regent a pass because he was twelve and being raised by Heartbreaker, a demented and evil man with emotion control powers, who spared little effort in shaping his assets into shapes that pleased him. None of us who are even in the slightest bit honest with ourselves expect that had we been raised in similar circumstances we would have been different. There's really no apples to apples comparison between Regent and Shadow Stalker.
 

Ryuugi

Registered User
Validated User
Well, except that she is, like all first-generation parahumans, traumatized to all hell and coping really badly. Her mentality come from somewhere, after all.
Eh. That's kind of a wash because it's hard to top a childhood with Heartbreaker in that department. Didn't Regent once act up a bit when his sisters messed with him and in response Heartbreaker stomped in and made him feel such utter terror that he couldn't muster up the courage to talk for literal months? And that's just one in a stream of incidents.

Regent may not be a first generation, but if we're talking origin stories I'm struggling to remember any that tops that, and it's just an anecdote for Regent.

Beyond which, the first-gen excuse doesn't hold much weight, because we see lots of first gens who aren't, well, Sophia.
 
Top Bottom