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White Wolf to no longer develop books internally, Camarilla Book to be edited.

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macd21

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True enough, but there were people pointimg out the red flags something like five minutes after Paradox picked up WW, what with the "nothing is off the table" this and "maybe remake Charnel Houses and WoD: Gypsies" that.
Do y’know what that looks like from Paradox’s point of view? Standard internet edition warring, shit-stirring and trolling, that follows every new release of a game product. Unfortunately this time there was some substance to the complaints.
 

Black Flag

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That seems to be the warning sign to me.
That peopleat NuWW can't see the difference between WoD: Gypsies and Charnel Houses and see them as equal products.
Yeah, that was Ericsson and, while I’m sure he has a lot to offer within certain realms, nobody who thinks those two are on the same level (or that WoD: Gypsy was a good idea) should be in a position to make these decisions. Or be the public face of a company.
 

Devil's Avocado

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Do y’know what that looks like from Paradox’s point of view? Standard internet edition warring, shit-stirring and trolling, that follows every new release of a game product. Unfortunately this time there was some substance to the complaints.
With the waters further muddied by the fact that alongside the legitimate complaints we had stuff like the "White Wolf are secretly Nazis" conspiracy article.

Yeah, that was Ericsson and, while I’m sure he has a lot to offer within certain realms, nobody who thinks those two are on the same level (or that WoD: Gypsy was a good idea) should be in a position to make these decisions. Or be the public face of a company.
Yeah, I do actually think Ericsson has some legitimate role to play as a creative, but he absolutely is not someone who a) should be let anywhere near anything even vaguely resembling PR or b) should be without proper editorial oversight.

In an idea world I'd just get Greg Stolze to head up the new edition and be done with it.
 

Zaleramancer

Social Justice Warlock
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The bolded part is not a thing. The only mention of playing Nazis that you will find is in the appendix, where they specifically advise against it.

As far as I can tell, this claim originally came from taking a single line of the Brujah clan writeup completely out of context, and then people who hadn’t even read it started repeating it as if it were true, which it isn’t.
Hmm, I recall differently. Let me quote:

While the clan definitely includes substantial numbers of vocal and visible outsiders, their desire for rebellion reaches as deep as the fraudster ripping off his own company, the lawyer representing the poor pro bono, the neo-Nazi claiming to be “alt-right,” and the basement-dweller downloading thousands of movies illegally for redistribution on streaming sites.
So, it does mention neo-Nazis and pro bono lawyers in the same breath, which is kind of jarring and why I remembered it.

I don’t see what’s out of context about bringing it up. It’s saying that this is a potential character archetype for the Brujah.

I haven’t had the pleasure of reading the appendix, so I’ll concede that part of this point. But I’m not super impressed because if you have to include a part of your game saying that playing Nazis is a bad idea, maybe you shouldn’t put neo-nazis in your description of one of the playable character types?

Not including Nazis is always an option.
 

JustinCognito

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That seems to be the warning sign to me.
That peopleat NuWW can't see the difference between WoD: Gypsies and Charnel Houses and see them as equal products.
Yeah, and I think the initial statement was "We realize that Gypsies was a pile of hot racist garbage, but we think there's some value to looking at the role of the traveling peoples in the WoD. Less Universal Monsters, more Gogol Bordello."

Unfortunately, as we saw from the Chechnya piece, it probably wouldn't have turned out well.
 

Rand Brittain

Go on until you're stopped.
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Meanwhile, it looks as though Paradox is putting resources into upgrading more of the classic World of Darkness books from scans to digital files, which is definitely a good way to get good press with fans. Looking forward to seeing more of that as it matures!
 

Black Flag

Dweller on the Threshold
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So, it does mention neo-Nazis and pro bono lawyers in the same breath, which is kind of jarring and why I remembered it.

I don’t see what’s out of context about bringing it up. It’s saying that this is a potential character archetype for the Brujah.

I haven’t had the pleasure of reading the appendix, so I’ll concede that part of this point. But I’m not super impressed because if you have to include a part of your game saying that playing Nazis is a bad idea, maybe you shouldn’t put neo-nazis in your description of one of the playable character types?

Not including Nazis is always an option.
Please. First of all, that line is a dig st the “alt-right,” straight-up calling them out as Nazis, which is not something they want to be known as, hence the rebrand, so nobody can honestly read that line as sympathetic to them.

Secondly, every single edition of this game has pointed out that Clan Brujah is prone to embrace activists and ideologs across the political spectrum. In other words, they’re not all left-wing, even if a plurality of them are. There’s nothing remotely new here. If anything, the authorial tone is more dismissive than in previous editions, where actual neo-Nazi Brujah were occasionally detailed as NPCs and it was basically left up to the reader to understand that they weren’t meant to be depicted sympathetically.

In short, I just can’t get on board with this idea that simply mentioning the existence of far-right vampires amounts to a recommendation that people play them, especially when it’s in the context of a clan whose blood favors ideological extremes, not just thrown out there at random. In other words, I think it’s very clear what the text is actually saying there, and it’s not that.

If the idea is that now any mention of Nazis is now to be taken as support of Nazis, then I’m afraid I just can’t get behind that.
 
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Skaorn

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For high school sophomore me, oWoD seemed adult and really progressive. I didn't drive, there was no real public transportation where I lived, AOL was the big internet provider, and what I could actually afford to by to read or listen to held a lot of the information on the outside world for me. The world was also a different place. I grew up and found a lot of oWW cringe worthy.

Originally I saw V5 as a game that failed to grow up with me and the rest of the world. I stated many pages ago that talk of neo-nazi Brujah in oWW wasn't nearly as bad as with the Get of Fenris. Considering the last few years, it might have just been better to leave that out at least until, say a Brujah book where you might tackle extreme political ideologies or current hot button issues in a game without hopefully upsetting other players. Even them dropping their Camarilla turd, I would call a major misstep by people who failed to realize some of the reasons oWW's stuff died out in popularity.
 

macd21

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Please. First of all, that line is a dig st the “alt-right,” straight-up calling them out as Nazis, which is not something they want to be known as, hence the rebrand, so nobody can honestly read that line as sympathetic to them.

Secondly, every single edition of this game has pointed out that Clan Brujah is prone to embrace activists and ideologs across the political spectrum. In other words, they’re not all left-wing, even if a plurality of them are. There’s nothing remotely new here. If anything, the authorial tone is more dismissive than in previous editions, where actual neo-Nazi Brujah were occasionally detailed as NPCs and it was basically left up to the reader to understand that they weren’t meant to be depicted sympathetically.

In short, I just can’t get on board with this idea that simply mentioning the existence of far-right vampires amounts to a recommendation that people play them, especially when it’s in the context of a clan whose blood favors ideological extremes, not just thrown out there at random. In other words, I think it’s very clear what the text is actually saying there, and it’s not that.

If the idea is that now any mention of Nazis is now to be taken as support of Nazis, then I’m afraid I just can’t get behind that.
Agreed. The whole NuWW support Nazis argument was ridiculous, taking things like the quoted piece and twisting it into something it wasn’t. It’s a description of the Brujah, pointing out that they’re not all left leaning progressives. They’re establishing that the Brujah aren’t a ‘good guy’ clan, sticking up for workers rights or minorities, there’s assholes there too.
 

The Gentleman Dawkins

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Thank you to those of you backing the Chicago by Night Kickstarter and saying you've enjoyed my work on V5 and / or V20. Kind words don't go unnoticed and are massively appreciated, especially given recent events.
 
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