WIR 4th Edition Monsters Manual

Yakk

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#11
Astral Stalker is a lurker, hence a puzzle monster. As an elite, it fights in a group of about 3.

It hides under cover, then fires the dart, then moves to further cover. Or 1 of them darts a target, and 2 of them claw-swarm it.

A dart+double claw-swarm deals 1d10+8+8d6+16 damage on a full hit, or 57.5 damage, or 19.2 DPR from each of the stalkers if everything hits.

At level 22, a defender has about 150 HP (give or take). Ideally, 3 elites should be doing at least 5 defenders worth of damage in 6-10 rounds of being vulnerable to counter-attack/combat.

28.75 damage * 6 to 10 = 172.5 to 287.5 damage over 6 to 10 rounds.

So yes, the damage output of the stalkers is anaemic. About 23% to 38% of what it should be.

I am under the impression that this is generally true of epic level opponents: that epic level monsters in 4e don't have a damage rate that matches the increase in PC durability.
 

MadMac

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#12
I am under the impression that this is generally true of epic level opponents: that epic level monsters in 4e don't have a damage rate that matches the increase in PC durability.
This is my impression as well, although of course some are better then others in this regard.
 

Yakk

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#13
The fix in general isn't that hard.

A half-assed target for a monster is that in 8 rounds of hitting 50% of the time (4 hits) that it does enough to reduce an even-level defender to 0 HP. Anything less than this, and the monster really isn't a threat.

An even-level defender has about 20+level*6 HP. Dividing by 4 gives an average hit value of 5+L*1.5.

Multiply by 1.75 for elite, and 3.5 for solo. Take into account encounter, recharge and the like powers.

Soldiers are +20% accurate, and about +10% tough. So they should do about -30% damage, or 4+L damage on an average hit.

Brutes are about -20% accurate, and are not supposed to be sub-par damage-wise. So they should do about +40% damage, or 7+L*2 damage, on an average hit. (if they are controlled by defenders, they should still be very little threat -- if not, they are nasty).

I don't know enough about Lurkers. They should do at least baseline damage on turns that they are engaged, however.

A level 22 elite lurker then does (5+22*1.5)*1.75 = 66.5 average damage per engaged round hit in order to be a credible threat.

This monster does 30.

Up damage to 3d12+15, with +3d12 with combat advantage, x2 if target is slowed or immobilised. Now we are at 57 damage per full-hit round .

Up the dart damage to 2d10+12, ongoing 10 (43).

... and the monster is still under par!

Now, the above values immobilisation and slowing at 0 -- so being a bit under par is allowed.

However, 3 of the above astral stalkers will be able to threaten the party quite seriously.

I really should do the crunch on the monsters in the manuals and see if they even approximate the level of damage output they "should" be doing.
 

MadMac

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#14
Ah, lets do one more just because.

Blood Fiend

Key words for this description are Vicious, Bloodthirsty Terrifying Countenance that Stops Creatures in their tracks. They also Hunt anything for food or sport.

Ok then. Random kills and eats whatever it runs into monster it is. The Lore entry only really adds that they're native to the elemental chaos and feed on the blood of the living. You can find them everywhere though, because, and I may have mentioned this before, they totally eat people.

The grouping mentions that they like to team up with Elementals and Giants. I'm guessing this is our first living weapon made by the Primordials instead of the Gods.

Looking at the picture, it's a medium humanoid with 4 arms, no real clothing or weapons, and has clawed fingers that look an awful lot like the Astral Stalker and are probably every bit as useful for anything besides killing or climbing.

They're like Astral Stalkers except far more boring, really.

Looking at the statblock they have high perception and intimidation skills, plus darkvision. They're immune to fear, which is a nice touch and have a slightly better then average ground speed for a medium humanoid. (8)

Also, they fly. There's no mention of them flying in any of their lore or descriptions, and it's not like they have wings or anything, they just fly. Because sometimes they feel like it, I guess.

Blood Fiends automatically have combat advantage against any bloodied living creature, which is interesting, and their immunity to fear is nicely backed with their tactics section explaining that Blood Fiends never retreat under any circumstances. They're just the crazed serial killers of the epic monster world.

As soldiers, they have a very functional but basic claw attack for 2d8+10. They don't have any kind of marking mechanic.

Their primary trick is their bite attack, which can be used in place of their claws only against bloodied enemies. Does 1d8+10 but more then makes up for the reduced initial damage with the free grab, ongoing 10 damage while grabbed, and heals the Blood Fiend 10 HPs. Eh. It has 220 HPs out the gate, I really doubt it's going to land enough bites to boost it's survivability much.

It also has Terror Gaze, which is a nice minor action close blast 3 that causes save ends immobilized, which is a very nice way of being sticky.

All in all, this the least interesting abomination so far. It's a functional, sticky meatshield, but nothing terribly memorable either on or off the combat grid.
 
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Yakk

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#15
Blood fiend damage output: 19 on a claw, 14.5+10 (until escape) on a bite (with 10 HP heal).

Target soldier damage: 26 per hit.

Ongoing bite damage is worth about 20, plus it eats the target's actions (to escape), but only works with CA (which should be about half of its attacks, say).

So ... 26.75 damage per hit. The Blood fiend is right on my damage target for a level 22 soldier! Neat.
 

Celisasu

The donuts speak to me!
#16
So what we've learned today children is that evil abominations of unlimited evil and destruction.....will be defeated on Tuesday. Maybe Wednesday.

I would like to make a variant Atropal to serve as the big bad for a campaign. I mean it's a stillborn undead would be god. Basically an evil undead baby which knew that it was destined for near infinite cosmic power and to do great things....and had it snatched away due to some sort of mishap along the way. There's so much potential for that.
 

MadMac

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#17
A BBEG worthy Atropal would be very cool to see, I agree. I'll knock off the remaining abominations in the morning. :cool:
 
#18
So what we've learned today children is that evil abominations of unlimited evil and destruction.....will be defeated on Tuesday. Maybe Wednesday.

I would like to make a variant Atropal to serve as the big bad for a campaign. I mean it's a stillborn undead would be god. Basically an evil undead baby which knew that it was destined for near infinite cosmic power and to do great things....and had it snatched away due to some sort of mishap along the way. There's so much potential for that.
Are you familiar with Atropus? He's basically a super atropal the size of the moon. He's from the 3.5 book Elder Evils, but he was mentioned in 4E's Open Grave.
 

Topher

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#19
Are you familiar with Atropus? He's basically a super atropal the size of the moon. He's from the 3.5 book Elder Evils, but he was mentioned in 4E's Open Grave.
And there's an official conversion of him to 4E on DDI somewhere.

Topher
 

Celisasu

The donuts speak to me!
#20
Yeah, I have the 3.5 Elder Evils and also the 4E conversion.


Of course right now I keep eyeballing Dagon and the Star Spawn. I wonder if there are models out that can be used to represent them?
 
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