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Worm: The best supervillain web serial that you aren't not reading yet.

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Sanctaphrax

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Would I be right in assuming that Ignis Fatuus is Eidolon's clone?

With regards to Panacea... she is too dangerous to store in a merely airtight facility. She made Atlas out of spare bugs - I see no reason she couldn't work with smaller bits of organic material. If she gets creative, then unless you starve her to death, she's going to have enough organic material to create concrete-eating bacteria and world-ending-apocalypse germs and send them on their merry way.
If they contain her in the Birdcage, they can contain her in a facility with no other supervillains in it. Slap an exploding collar on her if you feel the need for last resort...there's no conceivable way to take apart a metre of concrete fast enough to catch anyone off guard with her power.

I realize that building another Birdcage just for her would be excessive, but seriously. Dragon can contain every other supervillain the heroes capture together in one facility. She can contain this one little girl.
 

SuperG

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Would I be right in assuming that Ignis Fatuus is Eidolon's clone?



If they contain her in the Birdcage, they can contain her in a facility with no other supervillains in it. Slap an exploding collar on her if you feel the need for last resort...there's no conceivable way to take apart a metre of concrete fast enough to catch anyone off guard with her power.

I realize that building another Birdcage just for her would be excessive, but seriously. Dragon can contain every other supervillain the heroes capture together in one facility. She can contain this one little girl.
Fast enough? Probably not. Sneakily enough? Entirely possible. And if she DOES decide to unleash an apocalyptic plague, killing her won't help.


As for building a second Birdcage... they should've done that already; that it hasn't been done suggests that there are non-replicable factors, whether it be funding or phlebtonium, in play - which is actually quite plausible.


I mean, Panacea is essentially a Tinker who can't have their toys taken away - any facility that can hold her AND feed her basically needs either 24/7 parahuman surveillance (because her powers are subtle enough to not be noticeable to cameras) plus kill orders, or it needs to be able to hold almost any conceivable parahuman... because there is no telling what the upper limit on her abilities to construct bioweapons are until it's too late.

Also consider that building such a facility costs. Is it really worth it, compared to spending the money on more automated Dragon Suits?
 

Noliar

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That's an argument for killing her, not sending her to the Birdcage where she has dozens of capes as raw material. If you believe her threats the Birdcage is not enough containment and if you don't then it is inappropriate for justice, treatment and public utility.
 

dreamfarer

Man of Two Worlds
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Something I hadn't consider about Panacea before: Could she make Godzilla?

I don't think she could as, unless I've missed something, the cube-square law wouldn't be something she could overcome. The upshot of this is that he ability to make bio-plagues might have some practical limits too. The bacteria/virus/prions/whatever need to actually be viable. No magic bugs that are immune to all counter measures and can kill in impossible ways or at impossible speeds.

Granted that leaves a wide array of possibilities that are still potentially "world ending" but depending on what other bio-tinkers exist she's not necessarily a walking doomsday device.
 

SuperG

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That's an argument for killing her, not sending her to the Birdcage where she has dozens of capes as raw material. If you believe her threats the Birdcage is not enough containment and if you don't then it is inappropriate for justice, treatment and public utility.
The Birdcage is, as far as anyone involved in making the decision is aware, inescapable. I noted "make a second one" as an option, and then went over why that was impractical. So, given a choice between escapable facility, inescapable facility, or building a second ridiculously expensive inescapable facility...

Execution would be justified, but apparently people consider The Birdcage to be close enough as makes no difference.


As for justice... she wanted to go there. It's probably a bad idea to make her have to commit more crimes before you'll send her to the facility, particularly given how horrific her first one was. Treatment? Treatment of someone with her powers is essentially impossible without their full, willing cooperation - which she wasn't offering. Public utility? She's not useful unless she's trustworthy - and in her current state, she isn't.
 

Winston Smith

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It's funny, I was thinking the other days how the Great and Powerful Turtle (from the Wildcards universe) would be a Triumverate-level power in the Worm universe simply because of his unrestricted telekinesis. [1]

Flight isn't *that* common. Most of the big threats we've seen could be handled by levitating them a mile or so up into the air and letting them twist there. Heck, two out of three Endbringers could be stopped that way.

[1] Though to be fair, he was considered a top tier Ace even in his own universe. The Turtle once levitated an aircraft carrier a few feet out of the water, just to show he could.
There's also that time he made a tsunami by pushing water. Or the time he tore down the Brooklyn Bridge with his mind. Turtle is a terrifying bad ass in any supers setting that isn't cosmic level.
 

Sanctaphrax

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They don't need another Birdcage to hold Panacea. The Birdcage is designed to hold every possible parahuman. For a single parahuman with a powerful but narrow ability like Panacea, something way less elaborate would suffice. Especially since Panacea isn't kind of dumb, unlikely to attempt escape, and not at all practised in using the full extent of her powers.

And frankly, putting her somewhere where she a) can't get therapy and b) has other parahumans to work with just makes her more dangerous.

Sure, she asked for it. But she's not exactly a good decision-maker. Somebody should have overruled that nonsense and gotten her some help. Because if she was emotionally stable she could be a massive force for good.
 

Wildbow

Retired User
Therapy isn't magical, though. Major trauma takes years or decades to work through, in many cases. Authorities have to weigh the risks: Over the ten to twenty years it takes to get Panacea back to a workable state, how much risk is posed to the world at large on a day to day basis? If she has another psychotic break or tantrum, does this risk an epidemic? How secure are the facilities and how much do they cost to maintain, versus the possibility (with no guarantee) that she gets better and becomes a force for good in the world?

With countless other issues to deal with, the Wormverse authorities took the easier route, even if it's arguably less positive in the long run.
 

Winston Smith

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Banned
It also seems to me that the authorities in the Wormverse are looking to minimize worst case scenarios before looking to maximize long term good. I mean, if it were my call and someone like Panacea started talking super-virus-killer-plague I'd play like we were going to reunite her with her family and get her into therapy and then put a bullet in her brain. Or airstrike her house. Maybe both.
 

Sanctaphrax

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Eh. I'd have some sympathy for that argument if they had killed her.

But the Birdcage seems like the worst of both worlds. Not only does it make her useless, it leaves the possibility open that she'll make trouble in the future.

Sure, nobody's ever escaped. But that does not ensure that nobody ever will.

And they don't need Panacea fully fixed for her to be incredibly useful to the world. They just need her to be willing to heal someone when her therapist tells her to. Shouldn't take ten years to talk her into that. Especially since, if she's healing people, there's a chance she could at least partially fix her sister eventually.
 
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