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Worm thread Gimel: Tinker Taylor Weaver Worm

Sanctaphrax

Registred User
Validated User
There's an interesting discussion in the comments of the most recent chapter about religion in the Worm-verse. Somebody brought up the possibility of the Simurgh hitting Mecca, which is honestly pretty scary. There are a lot of Muslims out there who might be willing to risk contamination for the sake of a pilgrimage.

On a semi-related note, I kind of wonder about the state of gay rights on Earth Bet.

Legend's been married to Arthur for six years. Real-life New York legalized gay marriage just two years ago. So it seems like Earth Bet is a bit ahead of reality there.

It might be because there are gay superheroes. I mean, if Legend wants to get married the rest of the Triumvirate is going to back him up. And each of them is like a living weapon of mass destruction, so...they'll probably get their way. Multiply that by the number of gay heroes out there, and you've got a much better gay-rights situation than real life.

(I'm not saying the Triumvirate would directly threaten the government, but I am saying that minorities that have military power are less likely to be oppressed.)

There'd be a backlash, of course, which might be part of the reason that Neo-Nazis are a meaningful force in the Worm-verse.
 

Wildbow

Retired User
Well, she explicitly doesn't have faith in a higher power. Not sure if she would self-identify as atheist, though. Still, she's a nonbeliever.
I would peg her as nonbeliever if someone were to insist on a label.

It's not something she would have put a great deal of thought into, definitely not to the point that she'd put an 'atheist' label on herself. But when things are fucked up, she looks to the people in charge for laying fault, and things in the Wormverse are fucked up. It would take a stretch for her to be faithful, really.
 
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Alathon

4d6+27
Huh. I think most of his shitty actions (of which account for alot more than just 5%, I'd say 15% atleast) we're based on his giant ego and need to prove himself the big dog in the cape scene. His penis envy of Dauntless, his focus on his own performance over managing the Wards, his total reluctance to do the appropriate reaching out to bring in a new teenage cape, justifying getting people killed with hardass "what has to be done" rhetoric, and his refusal to own up to his own flaws in general.

All of these can be tied to his ego, and I think a sense of manliness is the core of that sense of self worth. He acts in a way he considers manly to feel good about himself and doesn't realize how toxic and self-serving it really is.
It doesn't look to me like he was living up to his own expectations of himself, more like he was beaten down by loss after loss, despaired, and flipped out while sleep-deprived.

Bear in mind that the U.S. uses sleep deprivation as a means of torture because it works.
 

SuperG

Active member
Validated User
I would peg her as nonbeliever if someone were to insist on a label.

It's not something she would have put a great deal of thought into, definitely not to the point that she'd put an 'atheist' label on herself. But when things are fucked up, she looks to the people in charge for laying fault, and things in the Wormverse are fucked up. It would take a stretch for her to be faithful, really.
...which I find amusing, since the Wormverse clearly has a cruel and capricious omnipotent supreme entity calling the shots (holds up a mirror). ;)


....I'll get my coat.
 

Asymptotic Binary

Totally A Pigeon
Could simply be an aesthetic preference.
As I said, Dragon's psychology is essentially human. Human gender identity does not work that way (and people believing and insisting that it does has been a source of a lot of pain and grief for transgender people, especially trans women).

Alternatively, Richter programmed her that way.
I'm pretty sure she was programmed that way.
Real-world machine intelligence is built upon self-teaching algorithms and genetic algorithms; if Dragon's AI was built that way, then her gender identity would have most likely arisen through that process rather than being built in as a parameter. Certainly, human gender identity is a really complex thing (let alone the weird permutations of, say, chromosomal gender, or physical gender traits), and not something we understand very well in terms of its development in the brain.
 

Khitty Hawk

Spawn of worms
Validated User
On a semi-related note, I kind of wonder about the state of gay rights on Earth Bet.

Legend's been married to Arthur for six years. Real-life New York legalized gay marriage just two years ago. So it seems like Earth Bet is a bit ahead of reality there.

It might be because there are gay superheroes. I mean, if Legend wants to get married the rest of the Triumvirate is going to back him up. And each of them is like a living weapon of mass destruction, so...they'll probably get their way. Multiply that by the number of gay heroes out there, and you've got a much better gay-rights situation than real life.
Not to mention that trigger events stem from trauma, more or less, so queer people are likely overrepresented in the cape population. In fact, I was surprised we only have one confirmed trans cape.
 

RazorSmile

Threadkiller
Validated User
As I said, Dragon's psychology is essentially human. Human gender identity does not work that way (and people believing and insisting that it does has been a source of a lot of pain and grief for transgender people, especially trans women).
I get that. What I'm saying is that she is an AI, software running on servers, puppeteering multiple expert system-driven suits and vat-grown fetus-like bodies (at least until she successfully grew her Lady Generic meat-puppet[s?]) If she was created as pure scratch-written code by Richter, then it's somewhat unlikely that she'd grow a gender even if her mental architecture developed along human-esque lines.

Of course, if it turns out Richter created her via some form of uploading, mindstate-duplication or brain-trawling (all of which are, of course, far from impossible), the above would be rendered moot.
 

Sanctaphrax

Registred User
Validated User
Not to mention that trigger events stem from trauma, more or less, so queer people are likely overrepresented in the cape population. In fact, I was surprised we only have one confirmed trans cape.
Do we have a confirmed trans cape?

Circus clearly defies ordinary gender norms, but I dunno if they're actually trans.

And I think Siberian manifests as a woman because he wants to memorialise his daughter, not because he's actually a trans woman.

Speaking of trans issues, I'm with laudre on the subject of Dragon's gender. If you make your robot sufficiently human, it'll likely have human qualities like a gender identity regardless of its anatomy or lack thereof.
 

Khitty Hawk

Spawn of worms
Validated User
Do we have a confirmed trans cape?

Circus clearly defies ordinary gender norms, but I dunno if they're actually trans.

And I think Siberian manifests as a woman because he wants to memorialise his daughter, not because he's actually a trans woman.

Speaking of trans issues, I'm with laudre on the subject of Dragon's gender. If you make your robot sufficiently human, it'll likely have human qualities like a gender identity regardless of its anatomy or lack thereof.
i was thinking of Circus. Coil said that Circus presents male in civilian life and female as a cape, and I think that sort of gender fluidity falls under the trans umbrella? I could be wrong.
 
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