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Wrath and Glory [merged]

Professor Polyhedral

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So I caved...(I'd make a great heretic)

Is the inside front cover/back cover image meant to be the Great Rift? It's not remotely readable if that's what it's intended to be (a map)
 

Professor Polyhedral

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I'm a bit confused by character creation.

I pick a rogue trader with a tier 2 point pool of 200 points, that archetype costs40, which doesn't leave me enough points to buy the tier 2 attribute and skill arrays. I could just buy those things individually, but then what's the point of them.

Also wouldn't it have been easier to figure the point cost of the reissue attribute and skills for each archetype into the cost? This would make figure trader, iirc, 58 points instead.
 

Neaden

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I'm a bit confused by character creation.

I pick a rogue trader with a tier 2 point pool of 200 points, that archetype costs40, which doesn't leave me enough points to buy the tier 2 attribute and skill arrays. I could just buy those things individually, but then what's the point of them.

Also wouldn't it have been easier to figure the point cost of the reissue attribute and skills for each archetype into the cost? This would make figure trader, iirc, 58 points instead.
Yes, the example arrays don't work with a lot of archetypes and should be ignored. Also yes I think making the requirements part of the archetypes benefits would would make more sense.
 

Professor Polyhedral

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The point costs of the arrays are correct though, so either attribute/skill costs are too high, or the associated tier level is too high.

That is, if I buy the attribute scores associated with the Tier 2 array they are the same point cost as if Id bought them independently (3 attributes at 4 and the rest at 3, iirc). 94 points (again iirc).

I knwe the game had errors, and this isn't insurmountable, but it does bug me :D

Have they said anything about this?
 

greyshinobi

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The point costs of the arrays are correct though, so either attribute/skill costs are too high, or the associated tier level is too high.

That is, if I buy the attribute scores associated with the Tier 2 array they are the same point cost as if Id bought them independently (3 attributes at 4 and the rest at 3, iirc). 94 points (again iirc).

I knwe the game had errors, and this isn't insurmountable, but it does bug me :D

Have they said anything about this?
They address it in the FAQ
 

Professor Polyhedral

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They address it in the FAQ
Not as far as I can see. The FAQ doesn't cover rules or printing issues and the errata only mentions the following:

PAGE 68 Purchase Talents: Change “…maximum of 4 Talents…” to “…maximum of 3 Talents…” based on Tier restrictions. PAGE 76 Pre-Assigned Attributes: Tier 3; Total cost comes to 133 not 126 PAGE 77 Pre-Assigned Skills: Tier 2; change this to two rating twos, not just one. PAGE 77 Pre-Assigned Skills: Tier 4; change this to three rating twos, not just two

PAGE 76 Pre-Assigned Attributes: Tier 3; Total cost comes to 133 not 126

PAGE 77 Pre-Assigned Skills: Tier 2; change this to two rating twos, not just one.

PAGE 77 Pre-Assigned Skills: Tier 4; change this to three rating twos, not just two.
 

Zehnseiter

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The point costs of the arrays are correct though, so either attribute/skill costs are too high, or the associated tier level is too high.

That is, if I buy the attribute scores associated with the Tier 2 array they are the same point cost as if Id bought them independently (3 attributes at 4 and the rest at 3, iirc). 94 points (again iirc).

I knwe the game had errors, and this isn't insurmountable, but it does bug me :D
I would treat it like Shadowrun with its ABCDE priorities. Imho it was a mistake to name the packages after the tiers.
In the Rouge Trader example I would just drop down to tier 1 package and the build up again with the remaining points. That is still faster the doing all per hand.

And yes those packages have no discount. They are imho just there to speed up the generation process.

Edit: I just looked in my book to double check. Could someone please post the English package costs for tier 2 attribute and skills. The thing is in the German book I can build that Rouge Trader with the Tier 2 skill and attribute packages without problems. Tier II package is 68 for attributes and 32 for skills in the German book.
 
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Professor Polyhedral

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I would treat it like Shadowrun with its ABCDE priorities. Imho it was a mistake to name the packages after the tiers.
In the Rouge Trader example I would just drop down to tier 1 package and the build up again with the remaining points. That is still faster the doing all per hand.

And yes those packages have no discount. They are imho just there to speed up the generation process.

Edit: I just looked in my book to double check. Could someone please post the English package costs for tier 2 attribute and skills. The thing is in the German book I can build that Rouge Trader with the Tier 2 skill and attribute packages without problems. Tier II package is 68 for attributes and 32 for skills in the German book.
Tier 2 attribute array (p.155) is 94 points.

Tier 2 skills array (p.161) is 70 points.

Along with the Rogue Trader archetype (40 points) that's 204 points. So perhaps Tier 2 attributes should be 90 points. But even though that evens out at 200 points that leaves zero points for talents or anything else.
 

jerepp

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Tier 2 attribute array (p.155) is 94 points.

Tier 2 skills array (p.161) is 70 points.

Along with the Rogue Trader archetype (40 points) that's 204 points. So perhaps Tier 2 attributes should be 90 points. But even though that evens out at 200 points that leaves zero points for talents or anything else.
I would step down to a Tier 1 Skill or Attribute package which should still be able to cover your requirements and give you some points to distribute.

If you stated out the Tier 2 attribute package as 90 and had 0 points left after the packages you still have plenty of customization because the attribute and skill don't specify where those attributes go and which skills get which ranks.

As to talents most of them are powered by character rank which means they are pretty minor at starting rank and become more meaningful when the character has earned some rank within the Tier. So it make more sense to buy with experience later rather than at character creation.
 

Zehnseiter

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Tier 2 attribute array (p.155) is 94 points.

Tier 2 skills array (p.161) is 70 points.

Along with the Rogue Trader archetype (40 points) that's 204 points. So perhaps Tier 2 attributes should be 90 points. But even though that evens out at 200 points that leaves zero points for talents or anything else.
Interesting. So I can report that this issue is fixed in the German language version.

The package costs there are:
52/68/99/115/189 for attributes
28/32/67/95/111 for skills

A rogue trader would end up with: 40 archetype + 68 attributes + 32 skills = 140
Plenty of points left for a talent or some extra equipment.

And a German player wouldn't think twice about it given that he would assume that he has average stats. As these packages don't give a discount a German character would tend end up with lower stats but probably more talents or better equipment.

One of these day I guess I need to get a English PDF to take a look what else was changed. There might be some surprises there.
 
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