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Wrath and Glory [merged]

Professor Polyhedral

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I would step down to a Tier 1 Skill or Attribute package which should still be able to cover your requirements and give you some points to distribute.

If you stated out the Tier 2 attribute package as 90 and had 0 points left after the packages you still have plenty of customization because the attribute and skill don't specify where those attributes go and which skills get which ranks.

As to talents most of them are powered by character rank which means they are pretty minor at starting rank and become more meaningful when the character has earned some rank within the Tier. So it make more sense to buy with experience later rather than at character creation.
I think this misses the point.

Clearly the numbers are wrong.
 

Zehnseiter

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How on earth does the german edition of the book have different numbers?
Feedback and errata ?

Obviously the fact that some combinations of race + archetype + and tier appropriate skill and attribute packages go over the limit is confusing and inelegant for a lot people.
So they made the packages smaller and so hopefully less confusing.

I doubt that they screwed up the numbers.

Mathematical the seem to be sound and build with the standard CP point costs.

Lets say for example tier 2 attribute packet 68 poitns:
2x4 and 2x3 and 3x2

Thats is 2x18 CP + 2x10 CP + 3x4 CP = 36+20+12 = 68 CP (naturally this is asuming that the attribute costs are the same in the English version)
 
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adamsmith

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That webcomic is fantastic - every game should do something like that to explain mechanics :)
 

Professor Polyhedral

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Feedback and errata ?

Obviously the fact that some combinations of race + archetype + and tier appropriate skill and attribute packages go over the limit is confusion an inelegant for a lot people.
So they made the packages smaller and so hopefully less confusing.

I doubt that they screwed up the numbers.

Mathematical the seem to be sound and build with the standard CP point costs.

Lets say for example tier 2 attribute packet 68 poitns:
2x4 and 2x3 and 3x2

Thats is 2x18 CP + 2x10 CP + 3x4 CP = 36+20+12 = 68 CP (naturally this is aasuming that the attribute costs are the same in the English version)
Clearly they have screwed up the numbers, our friend above with the German copy has different numbers in his copy. Furthermore his numbers work, the ones I have don't.

Both sets of numbers can't be right.

Furthermore the attribute costs in my copy if you were to buy them individually would be the same - 94 points. This is quite a serious deeprooted error. It's clearly more than a misnumbered table
 

LCDR Seamonkey

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I think this misses the point.

Clearly the numbers are wrong.
They aren't wrong in the sense that the math is wrong, only that they are too expensive to work with some archetypes. The default for character creation is that you buy each attribute and skill individually. If you are in a hurry or don't want to bother, you can use one of the pre-calculated bundles. They had to arbitrarily decide how big to make the bundles for each tier, knowing that there are a range of species and archetype options. If they pegged the packages to be small enough to work with the most expensive race//archetype available at that tier, than the majority of players would be left with a whole pile of extra points that they have to spend individually, defeating the purpose of using the prepackaged array. So instead they shot for the middle. That means that sometimes if you take a more expensive race and/or archetype, you are going to have to either use bundles from a lower tier or just go ahead and buy individual skills yourself.

My guess is that the german version went with smaller packages, which is why the point values are different. for instance, the german tier 2 spread listed above is different from the tier 2 spread in my US book - US Tier 2 is 3x4 and 4x3, which works out to 94 points - both arrays are correct in points value, they are just different arrays.

The pre-assigned attributes aren't meant to be prospcriptive or a bonus deal, just a time-saving option.
 

Zehnseiter

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Clearly they have screwed up the numbers, our friend above with the German copy has different numbers in his copy. Furthermore his numbers work, the ones I have don't.
I am the friend with the german copy....;)

Both sets of numbers can't be right.

Furthermore the attribute costs in my copy if you were to buy them individually would be the same - 94 points. This is quite a serious deeprooted error. It's clearly more than a misnumbered table
I don't think this is an error. I suspect they just made the pre build packages smaller but used the same costs.

Perhaps it will help when I post what the German attribute packages actually give you so that we can compare (because I don't know what that 94 point package gets you in the english version)

So Attribute packages in my German book.

Tier 1: 52 CP
4 x 3; 3 x 2

Tier 2: 68 CP
2 x 4; 2 x 3; 3 x2

Tier 3: 99 CP
1 x 5; 3 x 4; 3 x 2

Tier 4: 115 CP
3 X 5; 4 x 2

Tier 5: 189 CP
1 x 6 ; 2 x 5; 4 x4

I hope that I made no typos here...:)
 

Professor Polyhedral

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They aren't wrong in the sense that the math is wrong, only that they are too expensive to work with some archetypes. The default for character creation is that you buy each attribute and skill individually. If you are in a hurry or don't want to bother, you can use one of the pre-calculated bundles. They had to arbitrarily decide how big to make the bundles for each tier, knowing that there are a range of species and archetype options. If they pegged the packages to be small enough to work with the most expensive race//archetype available at that tier, than the majority of players would be left with a whole pile of extra points that they have to spend individually, defeating the purpose of using the prepackaged array. So instead they shot for the middle. That means that sometimes if you take a more expensive race and/or archetype, you are going to have to either use bundles from a lower tier or just go ahead and buy individual skills yourself.

My guess is that the german version went with smaller packages, which is why the point values are different. for instance, the german tier 2 spread listed above is different from the tier 2 spread in my US book - US Tier 2 is 3x4 and 4x3, which works out to 94 points - both arrays are correct in points value, they are just different arrays.

The pre-assigned attributes aren't meant to be prospcriptive or a bonus deal, just a time-saving option.
You don't think that the rules being different depending on which version you have of the corebook is an issue?

I find that very peculiar. Surely the developers couldn't have intended both to be correct.

I am the friend with the german copy....;)



I don't think this is an error. I suspect they just made the pre build packages smaller but used the same costs.

Perhaps it will help when I post what the German attribute packages actually give you so that we can compare (because I don't know what that 94 point package gets you in the english version)

So Attribute packages in my German book.

Tier 1: 52 CP
4 x 3; 3 x 2

Tier 2: 68 CP
2 x 4; 2 x 3; 3 x2

Tier 3: 99 CP
1 x 5; 3 x 4; 3 x 2

Tier 4: 115 CP
3 X 5; 4 x 2

Tier 5: 189 CP
1 x 6 ; 2 x 5; 4 x4

I hope that I made no typos here...:)
Do the point costs for buying attributes normally match these costs as they do in my book?
 
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