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Wrath and Glory [merged]

Zehnseiter

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I'm a little confused. I don't have the book and am just an interested observer.
Is this what seems to be going on:
English version: There's some prebuilt packages you can drop in that spend points for you. The points are spent correctly according to the rules but are more than you can really afford where they are suggested.
German version: There's some prebuilt packages you can drop in that spend points for you. The points are spent correctly according to the rules and spend fewer points then the English version.
Is that about right? There's no actual change to game rules? Just the amount of points in the sample packages are tweaked slightly? Or have I misunderstood the discussion here?
Correct. One should add that in the English rules the the problem only seems to happen with certain costly race and archetype combinations and not every time.
 

jerepp

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Correct. One should add that in the English rules the the problem only seems to happen with certain costly race and archetype combinations and not every time.
... and most of those races give characters stat boosts so picking a lower Tier attribute package is basically countered by increasing the effective attributes back up with the added bonus of further increasing those stats is costed as though from the basic attribute rather than the effective attribute.
 

macd21

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I find it quite extraordinary that the German version isn't simply a translation, but that the translators saw fit to change the rules.
??? The translator didn’t change the rules. That’s what everyone’s been trying to explain: this isn’t a rule change. The skills cost the same in both versions, just the packages have been shrunk to be more flexible.
 

Zehnseiter

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... and most of those races give characters stat boosts so picking a lower Tier attribute package is basically countered by increasing the effective attributes back up with the added bonus of further increasing those stats is costed as though from the basic attribute rather than the effective attribute.
I admit that my first instinct would be to drop to a lower skill package and enjoy the extra high attributes. As usually attributes do double duty in form of increasing skill and secondary stats. But I still lack enough experience with the game to know what is more optimal min/max wise.
 

Shining Dragon

Tough Tiger Fist
Validated User
??? The translator didn’t change the rules. That’s what everyone’s been trying to explain: this isn’t a rule change. The skills cost the same in both versions, just the packages have been shrunk to be more flexible.
I wonder if Ulisses will see fit to release these re-costed packages - either as a part of the errata or FAQ - to those of us who have the english core book.
 

LCDR Seamonkey

Urban Monkey Warfare
RPGnet Member
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I wonder if Ulisses will see fit to release these re-costed packages - either as a part of the errata or FAQ - to those of us who have the english core book.
I’m not sure what the benefit of doing so would be. Again, they aren’t “re-costed”, they just contain fewer attribute points and cost correspondingly less....... there’s literally nothing in the German packages you couldn’t figure out for yourself.
 

Shining Dragon

Tough Tiger Fist
Validated User
I’m not sure what the benefit of doing so would be. Again, they aren’t “re-costed”, they just contain fewer attribute points and cost correspondingly less....... there’s literally nothing in the German packages you couldn’t figure out for yourself.
But for the very same reason such packages exist in the book in the first place, it would make building a character easier and not confuse people new to the game.

And I guess I should have said "re-built" or "re-designed", not "re-costed".
 

J.T.

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If the packages are just there to make things move quickly in character generation and don't actually give you a cost benefit, like a reduction in the points you spend just ignore them and spend the points as you wish or just use them as a guide to what your character should have.

If there's no actual mechanical difference between the English and German book I don't see a problem apart from a little extra time spent in character creation.

Though I fully understand the annoyance of the issue of the packages being different in each edition it does seem to be a bit of a storm in a tea cup as far as I'm concerned :)
 

Professor Polyhedral

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I'm a little confused; to be clear are tables 3.11 (Attribute Build Point Costs) and 3.17 (Skill Built Point Costs) the same between versions? Is it just the array costs that are different, because the array costs are the same (in the English version) as if you'd bought those points individually, using the aforementioned tables.
 

Zehnseiter

Registered User
Validated User
I'm a little confused; to be clear are tables 3.11 (Attribute Build Point Costs) and 3.17 (Skill Built Point Costs) the same between versions? Is it just the array costs that are different, because the array costs are the same (in the English version) as if you'd bought those points individually, using the aforementioned tables.
They are the same in both. The German arrays are also build with those tables.

They are just smaller packages. They cost less but also give you less.
For example:

German Skill package Tier 3: 67 CPs
1x level 5 (1x20 CP)
2x level 4 (2x10 CP)
4x level 3 (4x6 CP)
1x level 2 (1x3 CP)

20+20+24+3 = 67

The underlying maths is the same in both language versions.
 
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