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[Wrestlepack] Discussion XI: Inevitable Overbooked Heel Turn

Capellan

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Sasha: December 12, 2012
Charlotte: July 17, 2013

Note that neither of them looked particularly promising at that stage.
 

Dawgstar

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Animal, Hawk, Sting, and Flair are obvious. The footage lets us confirm Jimmy Garvin, Bobby Eaton, and Barry Windham. That leaves the guy between Eaton and Flair. Frankly, the NES visuals look like Luger to me, but that's Stan Lane's grin and it wouldn't make much sense to have Eaton without him.
That the world was robbed of the Midnight Express in video game format is a crime.
 

Thomas Ufnal Crowlake

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I was recently thinking about a thing that popped up two threads ago, that is - on what kind of mechanics and logic should a wrestling booking simulator be based. I love TEW, but there's some stuff I get irritated with. For example, in TEW the match/segment rating is basically the amount of hype/excitement/emotional involvement it can generate. It is a great idea in many ways, but it fails at minor stuff like comparing which match was better (for example, for a match of the year award or best matches in a person's career etc.), where it often turns out that a WWF match between Hulk Hogan and Roody Piper in their late 40s is "better" than a Bruce Hart vs Chris Benoit, because the environment in which they compete favours popularity and charisma over in-ring talent; what's more, that same Bruce Hart vs Chris Benoit match in done in New Japan [provided they had moderate name value] could reach Hogan v Piper rating. On one hand, it makes sense - it's about giving the audience the product they want etc. On the other hand - it rubs me the wrong way that the match can only be rated in the context of a particular product (and the definition mostly boils down to whether popularity or in-ring skill is more important)

This got me thinking that a better engine for a TEW-like game should track different types of heat a match can produce, and then compare it to what the audience likes and cares about (which ties in to the old idea that was thrown around here, of a wrestling game focused on "beating" the audience's expectations). TEW's product types do surprisingly well as a starting point for those different types: you could measure the match's quality from the perspective of "mainstream" appeal "traditional" appeal, "modern", "cult", "hardcore", "comedy", "realistic" etc., or you could go with ratings more grounded in particular aspects of a wrestling match: "engaging storyline", "character work", "intensity/pace of the action", "skill display", "audience interaction", "daredevil risk", "hardcore violence" etc. Then those ratings (there could be more or less than what I am enumerating here) would be compared to what the audience wants to get a grade on how entertaining and popular the match was.

This allows for stuff such as worrying about both delivering the things that the fans want and putting in some variety not to oversaturate them (for example the audience for WCW love "mainstream" hot characters and swerves and soap opera stories, but if they don't get any "realistic" wrestling-focused stuff or "traditional" in-ring-based storytelling in their semi- and main event, they are going to be restless); managing the audience's expectations through marketing & promos (selling the Ultimate Warrior as a Mainstream star is a good move, but making the audience expect technical prowess from him... Well.); having to make slightly different shows for different audiences (even mostly mainstream audience in Philly or in the South will be partially unsatisfied without a token hard, bloody brawl) and times (Attitude era); etc.

You could just have worker attributes as the ability to produce the particular kinds of audience satisfaction, divided into "X in-ring" and "X promo". Or you could use tew-style stats and judge how much they contribute to which aspect of the show (with the possibility that some workers have traits that modify the proportions used - for example a wrestler who doesn't have enough physical toughness and brawl skills to produce a credible hard-hitting experience, but is so ferocious in their locks and throws and submissions and looks so legit dangerous that they can partially use their technical skills to produce that kind of appeal).

Does that seem even remotely interesting?
 

ajdynon

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I should also ask, would the definitive NXT Four Horsewomen era be from Charlotte winning the title to Asuka beating Bayley for it?
 

Godder

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I should also ask, would the definitive NXT Four Horsewomen era be from Charlotte winning the title to Asuka beating Bayley for it?
I'd add the rematch as well, but you could also stop at the rematch with Sasha as after that, there are no more matches with 2 horsewomen.
 

Phantom Stranger

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This got me thinking that a better engine for a TEW-like game should track different types of heat a match can produce, and then compare it to what the audience likes and cares about (which ties in to the old idea that was thrown around here, of a wrestling game focused on "beating" the audience's expectations). TEW's product types do surprisingly well as a starting point for those different types: you could measure the match's quality from the perspective of "mainstream" appeal "traditional" appeal, "modern", "cult", "hardcore", "comedy", "realistic" etc., or you could go with ratings more grounded in particular aspects of a wrestling match: "engaging storyline", "character work", "intensity/pace of the action", "skill display", "audience interaction", "daredevil risk", "hardcore violence" etc. Then those ratings (there could be more or less than what I am enumerating here) would be compared to what the audience wants to get a grade on how entertaining and popular the match was.
This is an interesting idea, but there really is no 'best' in professional wrestling. There's 'what I like most'.

This might make for a more interesting set of factors to juggle than TEW or it might lead to the spreadsheet underlying every management game hanging a lot?
 

Cenobite

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The WWE announced that Yusuke "Wally" Yamaguchi, who Attitude-era fans will know as Yamaguchi-San, has passed away at the age of 60. No cause of death mentioned.

Its unfortunate, but at least Val Venis can finally sleep soundly at night.
 

Wakshaani

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The WWE announced that Yusuke "Wally" Yamaguchi, who Attitude-era fans will know as Yamaguchi-San, has passed away at the age of 60. No cause of death mentioned.

Its unfortunate, but at least Val Venis can finally sleep soundly at night.
Mrs. Yamaguchi might be the prettiest woman to ever step into a WWX ring. Not a wrestler mind you! She was a model (actress? I forget) that was brought in for the job.

But that whole thing gave us "Chopee chopee your peepee!" and, well... I can't forgive it.

Daniel Bryan, obviously. I *hope* we get a two-on-one beatdown that ends with Kofi rolling in for the save, to set up the match everyone ACTUALLY wants, but Ifea they'll turn it into a trhee-way at Mania.

+ Charlotte Flair vs. Becky Lynch - If Lynch wins, she will be added back into the WWE Raw Women's Championship match at WrestleMania
Becky, because there's never a stipulation match that doesn't see the stip used.

I keep hearing different things about Dean staying or leaving. On the one hand, here's a good end to a run if they want to maybe hire him in the future. if they, instead, want to let him go, he needs a match at Mania. Nobody cares if it's one of the three badguys, but Dean vs cancer-beating Middle-sized Dog at Mania? Yeah, that works.

Badguys win due to Dean turning on Roman.

Big gals win it here, setting up a Mania rematch to get Boss n Hug the big crowd pop.


Poor Bobby Roode. How your star has faded.

I'm gonna go on the longshot here and say Black & Ricochet.

+ WWE SmackDown Tag Team Championship: The Usos (Jey & Jimmy Uso) (c) vs. The Miz & Shane McMahon
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Another team-break to set up Mania. Usos win, Miz and Mac come to blows afterwards, fight at Mania.

PLEASE keep it on Asuka!

+ Pre-show: Rey Mysterio vs. Andrade Singles match
Rey Rey on this one.

I'd LIKE to see it be New Day, kicking the show off happy, but, the heels sneaking out a win, with the New Day in the ring as the heels slink up the ramp? Always works and gets us a hot Kofi for later. As such? RUSEV DAY!
 
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